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Galactic Citizen

Pegasus Mk II-class Star Destroyer


Name/Type: Pegasus Mk II-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kashan Defence Industries / Onyxian Commonwealth
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 3,836 + 282 Gunners
Length: 1205 Meters
Speed: 20 MGLT, 1200 Kph
Hyperdrive: x0.6
Shield Rating: 6175 SBD + 6175 SBD Back-up
Hull Rating: 2325 RU
Weapons: 50 KDI XIV-7 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 40 KDI IV-9 Quad Ion Cannons, 20 KDI L-W4.3 Point-Defence Laser Cannon Batteries, 10 Hansen Feathertouch Tractor Beam Projectors, 20 Starflare Mk II-class Missile Launchers.
Fighter Complement: 48 Medium Fighters (~12 meters), 24 Heavy Fighters (~16 meters) or other equivalent.
Troops: 3,200 Infantry, 20 Sentinel-class Medium Tanks or other equivalent.
Support Craft: 2 Lambda-class Shuttles, 6 Meteor or Raptor Dropships, 4 CG-10 Centaurs.
Other: KIBC II, Gravitron Mk I, AAIS, Magnetorian Sweep

Description: The Pegasus Mk II is the result of the collaboration of Kashan Defence Industries and the Onyxian Commonwealth redesigning the Pegasus-class based on experiences learned from the Imperial incursion at Metalorn. Influenced by the Second Wave school of thought, the Pegasus Mk II is faster and more heavily armed than the Mark I at the cost of thinner hull armor and a lowered ground complement. Due to different construction techniques used in the Mk II, the original Pegasi will not be upgraded to the Mk II, and instead will soldier on within the fleet. The Mark II will instead replace the Mk I in production within the Confederation.

R&D Explanations:

Automation: Automation has been a mainstream technology of Kashan, especially with Kashan Automation. However, while advances were made in programming by the said Kashan corporation, particularly in machine heuristics and learning, nothing in the actual hardware was. As such, the hardware of the Kashan Defence Fleet was bulky as its predecessors within the CIS ships. However, Uffel, upon its membership into the Contegorian Confederation, has contribuated the latest hardware of the planet, which is derived from a Positronic Processor acquired by QS-2D. As such, the space automation has taken up within the ship has been reduced to 30% of what it took up previously.

As with the previously used droid brains they are armored with Quadranium Carbide and Dallorian alloys and are positioned towards the centre of the hull to prevent damage from glancing hits on the vessel. Access to the droid brains themselves is severely restricted and is heavily protected by the ship’s security system, which is discussed below.

While automation certainly has its advantages for the Confederation Fleet, it does have on drawback. Moving and living creatures can help with damage control. Stationary Droid brains aren’t quite as effective to say the least. Thus, the efficiency of the damage control is below average for a ship its size.

KDI Multi-Core Power System: Most starships use a single, massive reactor. The Pegasus Mk II does not, instead reflecting the redundant system philosophy that dominates Kashan engineering. Instead, it relies on a series of smaller reactor cores which are scattered throughout the central regions of the ship linked into two separate power networks. As a result, it is significantly harder to disable the vessel because it would require the destruction or ionization of two separate power systems. From lessons learned at Metalorn, all reactors and generators are heavily armored in Ardanium that has been being stockpiled by the Confederation for some time. As a result of the radiation generated by the ship’s reactors strengthening the metal, it is exceptionally difficult to destroy a reactor.

Engines: The engines on the Pegasus Mk II are similar to those used on the Seraph Mk III, but remain heavily armored like those on the Pegasus Mk I. Aside from carrying a maintenance and repair crew of LE Repair droids, it uses the superconductors to create magnetic fields that can redirect the ion streams of the engines in all matters of angles, which in turn makes the cruiser more maneuverable than most ships of its size. While those elements are not new to KDI design, the Pegasus Mk II has added another innovation: tight-beamed engines. Usually, a starship’s ionic stream begins to disperse shortly after being vented through the engines; the Mk III’s does not. Within the newer compact engines, ultrachrome plating has been used to create magnetic fields that focus the exhaust into a set, tightbeam stream that does not disperse nearly as quickly as that of most ion engines. That in turn makes there less volume with which the ion streams can move within, and thus, adds mass that the engine’s thrust can push off of. This by itself is not very substantial, but combined with the afterburner effects of the magnetic focusing, increase the Pegasus Mk II’s speed.

Hull Construction: The Pegasus Mk II follows the trend set by the Styria-class in that it does not use Ultrachrome armor because of the expense and limited production capabilities of the metal. Instead, the armor is made of Trimantium and Lanthanide and produced in the same fashion as the Ultrachrome plating used on the Pegasus Mk I. Trimantium is used to plate starship hulls. It is extremely durable, and provides a great deal of protection when used in combination with shields (CUSWE). It is also noted for its unusually tensile strength by spacers (WEG). This makes the Pegasus Mk II resistant to solid projectile weapons. Lanthanide is an ultra-dense alloy material was used in the creation of security barriers and personal furniture which was capable of deflecting or absorbing blaster or projectile fire (CUSWE). For the Pegasus Mk II, Lanthanide is capable of partially deflecting energy fire and putting up with more energy abuse than most other similarly sized and armored vessels.

Because warheads are among the gravest threats facing modern-day capital vessels, the Mk II’s armor is Electric Reactive. Obviously the alloy plates serve as the conductive plates in the armor whereas a Quadranium carbide serves as the insulator of the armor(discussed in more detail after the following explanation from Wikipedia):

A new technology of electric reactive armour is in development, where the armour is made up of two or more conductive plates separated by some space or by an insulating material, creating a high-power capacitor. In operation, a high-voltage power source charges the armour. When an incoming body penetrates the plates, it closes the circuit to discharge the capacitor, dumping a great deal of energy into the penetrator, which may vaporize it or even turn it into a plasma, significantly diffusing the attack. It is not public knowledge whether this is supposed to function against both KE-penetrators and shaped charge jets, or only the latter. This technology has not yet been introduced on any operational platform.

Previous Electric Reactive Armors used by the Contegorian Fleet has used various polymers of carbon; long-manufactured for use on the fleet’s Starflare missiles and a few of its small support craft, such as starfighters or probes. In short, it was the most available insulator to the fleet, hence its use. However, more experimentation with ERA using a wide variety of insulators from vacuum to plexiglass, but the most promising were the carbides, whose also had the benefit of an extremely hard refractory ceramic. And of those, Quadranium Carbide(QuC) was found to be the most effective. As with other hard refractory ceramics, Quadranium Carbide has an extremely high melting temperature due to its strong interatomic bonding between molecules. As with other materials of similar nature, it is rather hard and has a high tensile strength, meaning that solid projectiles such as PIMs or slugs do not inflict as much damage. Penetration by such weapons is hampered and reduced because of this layer. A side benefit of this layer is that it does not conduct electrical energy at all, making it effective in stopping the effects of most ion weapons (the exception being PIMs).

Shields: The Pegasus Mk II carries fairly typical shield systems for any modern warship. Like previous KDI ships, the main and back-up shield generator systems are identical. This leads to easier maintenance and improved battle capabilities. All shield generators are located below the armor plating. Thus, the shields themselves are situation just on top of the hull plating. It should be noted that the domes on the bridge tower are not the shield generators, but rather auxiliary sensor domes.

Kashan Hyperdrive: The Hyperdrive found on the Pegasus Mk II is derived from that of the Acclamator-class Military Transport. While the design team did not have an actual Acclamator hyperdrive available to them, they did have several engineers and mechanics who worked on them during the Clone Wars. To the best of their abilities, it was reconstructed. Nonetheless, it still was slower than that of the Acclamators. In the end, the hyperdrive’s rating was raised to Acclamator levels by brute force engineering. It was modified to accept more power. In order to prevent the engine from overheating and melting, it was made with Dallorian Alloy and given an advanced cyro-cooling system.

Ultrachrome MagLev Turrets: Generally, capital-grade weapons are large enough that while those a serious threat to enemy capital vessels, they are not very effective in tracking fast-moving objects like starfighters or missiles. By utilizing the superconductor properties of Ultrachrome, Kashan Defence Industries has designed fast-tracking turrets that allow the turbolasers of the Pegasus Mk II to target enemy starfighters as well if not better than the quad lasers of the Lancer-class frigate. Instead of using conventional hydraulics, by using Ultrachrome rings, the turrets can swivel on a magnetic levitation derived from the charged plating. With no friction and high-speed, the only thing that limits the effectiveness is the software programming that runs them. All weapons on the Pegasus Mk II with the exception of the Starflare-class Missile Tubes are equipped with this turret.

KDI XIV-7 Heavy Turbolaser: Yet another specifically developed weapon, the XIV-7 design is actually based on the rare SW-APE rifle manufactured decades ago. Like that weapon, it has the Stysor blaster chamber's prismatic crystal housing and galvern pattern, that boosted the static pulse output from the weapon's actuating module for a higher range. When this is combined with the ion sheathing and particle accelerator technology currently employed on the Seraph-class, the weapon has 150% of the range as a standard heavy turbolaser. This weapon has the option for flak bursts for use against enemy starfighters and warheads.

KDI IV-9 Quad Ion Cannon: A weapon based on the legacy of the IV-8, this larger weapon differs in having the ionic firepower that is equivalent to that of a normal turbolaser. It uses the same technology as the XIV-7 Heavy Turbolaser, and as such, has 150% range compared to normal turbolasers. This weapon has the option for flak bursts for use against enemy starfighters and warheads.

KDI L-W4.3 Point-Defence Laser Cannon: The L-W4.3 is the reverse of most KDI weapon technology; instead of working of increased aim, the L-W4.3 is intentionally designed with a very short range. However, it’s bolts are as powerful as those of a heavy laser cannon. In addition, the Dallorian-plated weapon has been fitted with a Merr-Sonn advanced rapid-pulse energy module, giving it a high rate of fire. With it’s small size, the servos have little difficulty in rapidly tracking a fast target, making it an ideal defence against missile attacks.

KDI Starflare Mk II-class Missile Tube: The Starflare-class Missile Tube is the launching unit for the Starflare-class Missile. In order to switch warhead types, the Pegasus Mk II uses a revolving rack of the warheads. To prevent premature detonation, the warhead changing process takes place behind durasteel blast doors aside from the Trimantium-Lanthanide hull plating. Also, each warhead is automatically armed only after it leaves the launching tube.

Hansen FeatherTouch Tractor Beam Projector: this tractor beam unit is capable of amazingly fine operations. They can harmlessly pull a bird out of mid-flight, or rip a small freighter to pieces. The FeatherTouch is turret-mounted, allowing it to be used in a multitude of configurations (CUSWE).
Magnetoran Sweep: This Kashan Star Destroyer carries a single powerful magnetoran sweeps, a wide-beam device was used to disrupt targetting computers(CUSWE). Unlike most magnetoran sweeps, this one utilizes the entire hull of the Pegasus to create the electomagnetic field that disrupts and jams enemy weapons and ship subsystems. This system can only be deployed in an arc in front of the Pegasus-class. It is an area-effect weapon, meaning that both friendly and hostile vessels to the ship will be equally effected to it if both are in the area. As such, the Magnetoran Sweep is generally used in the opening of the battle before the two lines of ships usually meet.

Integrated Kashan Battle Computer Mk II: An upgraded version of the KIBC, it includes all of its predecessors equipment and abilities. The main purpose of the Battle Computer is to intertwine, triangulate, and transmit sensor data collected from each ship. This allows the ships to instantly gather target acquisition data and triangulate that data. The triangulation process ensures excellent target data, foiling many anti-targetting and sensor-jamming systems.

The main hardware upgrade was the use of the Uffel reverse-engineered positronic processors, which provide an intense amount of computing power. The KIBC II has more computing power than many Mid-Rim planet’s computers combined. As a result, the KIBC can plot and calculate micro-jumps to anywhere quicker than usual. That in itself still takes roughly a minute. However, by continuing to receive navigational data and supplementary computing power from other ships still in realspace, the user’s ship is capable of making micro-jumps anywhere in realspace. That being said, it is still slightly slower than its Imperial counterpart, but it also does not have energy problems of the Imperial counterpart either.

Like the original KIBC, the network can also provide navigational data from each ship along. Each vessel automatically transmits its location to the other vessel and shares navigational data with it as well. This allows the vessels of the Kashan fleet to act as navigation beacons for hyperspace jumps. As such, it is possible for Kashan ships to make instant intra-system micro-jumps to a Kashan vessel with the Battle Computer.

Anti-Intruder System –
Checkpoints throughout the ship has been implemented, with blast doors lined with durasteel at each checkpoint. Also at every checkpoint are force locks (strong force fields) that will automatically engage to block a person who does not have the proper clearance to that portion of the ship. durasteel also lines the corridor walls to prevent lightsabers from cutting through. At every checkpoint (which are manned by a security droid) are clearance checks – which are done by voice recognition, or ID cards. Access to the bridge is extremely limited, and only officers are allowed entry. Persons wishing to enter the bridge must undergo a fingerprint scan – those who do not have clearance are barred from entry by force locks and blast doors. Also lining the checkpoints are the mark four guardian grids. These grinds are outfitted with laser cannons that track known hostiles and eliminate them. The grids only come online when someone tries to gain access through the checkpoint without clearance.

The anti-intruder system is also designed to penetrate fingerprints to locate forgeries and fakes. The fingerprint scanners have been upgraded to spot fake fingerprints – such as the known fingerprint copying device. The scanner also checks for life signs with in the person. It will not accept clearance from anyone without a pulse of some kind.

Command Facilities: The Pegasus Mk II-class sports two bridges. The observation bridge, which resembles the typical Imperial bridge tower, for normal operations. A battle bridge, located underneath the observation bridge tower, for instances in which using the observational bridge would be dangerous to the ship's command crew.

Comments

#17 6:37pm 12/01/07

The following post is probably going to be very controversial, but I really don't care. Nor does it really pertain to the idea of whether the Pegasus II is feasible or not, but it does pertain to the issue of TNO going around saying GC is strapped for cash.

I'm sick and tired of Simon (and other TNO members) going around saying GC is cash strapped, but acting like TNO has tons of cash. You think out military would require a lot of money due to the R&D costs? Well you have done a lot of R&D shit yourself that would have been prohibitably expensive, including the development and construction of Night Cloaks, an Eclipse, an Executor and some massive station at Roche. Plus an overhaul of your entire fucking fleet so that "Our normal ISDs are like ISDs Mark V and aren't really comparable to a standard ISD except for in name", and that isn't even counting you actual R&Ded different kinds of Star Destroyers.

Now, onto you're command ships. Since the idea of "reasonable" (I use that term loosely people have different ideas of what reasonable is) fleet size was inputted, TNO has used or mentioned (that I can remember of the top of my head):
1 Eclipse Star Destroyer (17km)
1 Executor Star Destroyer (I think this a 10-12km version)
1 of those ships that large ships to build darktroopers, the Arc Hammer I think, also 6km rings a bell
At least 1 Superior battleship (7km)
A lot of Venerators (6km). I'm counting 1 used by Kach, 1 used by Wes (Bandomeer and H&G) 2 used by Simon (Portents of Change) and probably others
4 Conquerors (5km)
At a couple Corellian Star Defenders (6km)
Some massive station at Roche
1 Special 5km Reign Star Destroyer.

GC has:
1 Dauntless that I've always presumed to be Joren's flagship, though currently isn't acting as such, might even be the one I've listed below this as "Marth's"
1 Dauntless under Marth
1 Dauntless used by me in H&G
1 Viscount (status unknown, possibly up for repairs)
1 Freedom Class Vylx (BDE war)

Notice how GC has been reasonable and has mentioned at most 6 Command ships, where as TNO has mentioned minimum 15 plus a massive military station? And the vast majority of TNO's are the same size or bigger than GC's Command Cruisers? Yet TNO isn't more than twice the size of GC. Trust me, I've gone and counted the planets. You're at 134, we're 72. Yes, you're a lot bigger, but you're stuff isn't just "slightly less than twice GC's stuff", no you're command ships are 2.5 GC's stuff in numbers, in length over 3 times GC's stuff. Plus would be more expensive to produce due to the technology involved in something like a Super Laser. Plus all your super expensive refits and upgrades and all that shit. GC has our refits and such as well, but TNO has theirs.


Now I know GC RPers have bowed down to the idea put forward by TNO we don't have a lot of cash and have RPed as such, but that doesn't mean TNO isn't cash strapped. All it means is that Simon wrote something and immediately everyone is like "Oh dear, Simon wrote it, it has to be true, lets act like we are broke." Now I'm not saying Simon isn't a good RPer, he most certainly is, far better than I am. What I'm saying is that just because you say something, doesn't make it true. Or if its true for us, its true for you. Meaning TNO is just as fucking broke, if not more so than GC because you appear to be doing more in propotion to your planets.

So, in summary, sit down, shut the fuck up, look in the mirror and realize that TNO isn't this huge fucking government that you say it is and doesn't have a ton of cash. In fact, if GC is as broke as it has been said, then TNO is just as broke, or more so. And I will start RPing TNO in that manner. That or GC has a hidden stash of cash and a hidden fleet that we are just pretending we don't have for some unknown reason.

#16 6:30pm 12/01/07

[QUOTE]Detail aside, there is no way any government can realistically do what you're claiming to do. The R&D costs for a ship are immense - no government (especially the Coalition) is going to sign off on an upgrade immediately after the first design was completed, as a result of one engagement. Especially not an upgrade that renders totally useless all of production facilities designed and built for the first Pegasus.[/QUOTE]

Well it's probably a good thing that I run the Confederation, not the Coalition then; Our economy isn't exactly shot to pieces. Again, it's not an upgrade, just a different variant. One engagement has changed many things within the realm of technology before in the past. Did not the Battle of Sinope in the Crimean war show wooden warships to be obsolete? Did not the Battle of Hampton Roads convince the Union to build ironclad warships as a regular basis?

I will say it again, this design does not render the production facilities at Kashan useless. Those yards will instead be used for making Seraphs, which use the exact same technology as the original Pegasus. Again, this is not an upgrade, as there won't be any Pegasus Mk Is being converted into Mk IIs.

EDIT: I believe TNO has designed three additional Marks of the Imperator, and has also made the Astrus to replace the last mark. Why shouldn't I be allowed to make one additional version of the Pegasus?

#15 4:53pm 12/01/07

Or else the Imperials would have Impstars Mark 1082579

#14 4:44pm 12/01/07

Detail aside, there is no way any government can realistically do what you're claiming to do. The R&D costs for a ship are immense - no government (especially the Coalition) is going to sign off on an upgrade immediately after the first design was completed, as a result of one engagement. Especially not an upgrade that renders totally useless all of production facilities designed and built for the first Pegasus.

Simply put, there is no way - period - that any government would ever do what you're claiming to do. This has been brought up in private before now with regards to your R&Ds, but as you can see, this one has brought it into the open.

You seem to totally fail to grasp what 'research and development' is, both on an IC and OOC level. On the IC level, this cannot happen for reasons already stated. On an OOC level, it's a ridiculous endeavor for the reasons stated b Omnae.

#13 3:47pm 12/01/07

[QUOTE]And, more importantly, how many have you roleplayed against?

If you feel that it was an unfair number, we can talk about it.[/QUOTE]

Well, literally, the number of stygium cloaked ships I went up against would be
257, including starfighters. I speak of the 7 EMPIRE heavy cruisers and their respective fighter complements deployed within H&G. You see, the EMPIRE Project uses cloaking technology taken off the Tie Phantom, and a Tie Phantom's cloaking technology is purely stygium. Now, finding enough Stygium to provide for 6860 meters of capital ships and their starfighters is somewhat unlikely from a realistic IC standpoint. Frankly, I don't care that Drayson uses the technology because it seems to be RPed reasonably. My point to Drayson was that the technical aspects of the R&D doesn't matter as much as how the ship is RPed. I should mention that I already brought this up to Drayson's attention already during the H&G debacle.

[QUOTE]However, in relation to your R&D specifically, Drayson has a point about the cost involved in upgrading ships quickly and frequently. No way around that. But, as is also correctly pointed out by Wes and yourself, the ship is not in play yet and won't be for 'quite a while'. And so, while the design may be in existence in the TRF Universe, the actual prototype ship is not. So the point is moot right now.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, this isn't an upgrade at all; there won't be any Pegasus Mk Is going into the yards and being completely reworked. This is simply a new variant that will be produced instead of the old one from now on. I mentioned this within the first paragraph.

Now, admittedly, I have upgraded two starships: the S9 Deathsaber and the Seraph-class. From an OOC perspective, it was roughly five months between the Seraph Mk II and the Seraph Mk III. The time between the Deathsaber variants is roughly four months. But define frequent? That may be exceptionally frequent for some members, but that seems like a long time to me because of the frequency in which I RP.

[QUOTE]Incidentally, what does 'quite a while' mean?

Quite a while? Or next week with the description "A year after Metalorn...". If it's the latter, it may screw with the Timeline a little bit as it does not progress at a regular steady pace. [/QUOTE]

I have the unofficial policy of posting a R&D, and then rping the first Ic ship after several weeks. I consider that time to be the unofficial "building/research" time. Which probably doesn't sound like a long time OOC to some veterans, but generally the Confederation has at least taken one planet during that time.

[QUOTE]This is an example, in my opinion, of where too much detail can hurt.[/QUOTE]

I realize that many people are against detail, and I'm fine with that; instead of Ankh arguing with Gue about the 100000 RU value he attached to his starfighter, he can include the fighter in his RPs and use it to further enhance his stories. And of course, there are others as well. I think that's great that they can do that without having to be technical and detailed like myself.

But I think there is such a thing as lack of detail, which I believe is equally bad for fleeting. I don't mean to pick on Drayson, but the EMPIRE project is the first thing that comes to mind when I say this. If something like the SOb's weapons are so undefined that the RPer can say "Well, it has heavy weapons in the RP and the R&D, so I think it can easily have a Gravity Well Projector on it. No, the gravity-well projector wasn't used in the RP or the document, but it fits under the category of heavy weapons."

This actually occurred between myself and Drayson within H&G. Whoever designs a "storyline vessel", can possibly be at an advantage during a fleeting encounter because the design is somewhat malleable for its user and unpredictable to its opponent. The same cannot be said of the Pegasus or any other detailed ship, because nearly everything is defined, the concept is rigid. Everyone knows exactly what they're facing within a fleeting thread. I can't suddenly say that the Pegasus now sports a gravity-well projector if I'm engaging an opponent that wants to use hyperspace.

I don't disagree with anything else you said.

#12 12:06am 12/01/07

[B]Beff: [/B] Sure, edit and chop. I may not as been as articulate as I would have liked but you are definitely welcome to edit and sticky.



[B]Joren: [/B]

I am not attacking the R&D itself. I am not attacking the "fun" you have in writing it or what not. People like writing them whether the R&D is super detailed, sort of detailed or if it is simply a general write up (which does not negate the purpose of this forum).

As stated before, this forum is for those who wish to create/design original ships that are not found in canon.

As such, we (the Staff) no longer descriminate between the writing of the R&D (as to whether the write-up is simple or complicated) or it's content (because there is no approval process).

This is because R&D mods, Admins and designers used to go back and forth for so long over whether something was "fair or not" and after all that time spent arguing and back and forth, the ship wasn't even used (or used once in roleplay). So now, we make the [i]"use"[/i] the deciding factor if the ship is fair or not. But this time, we don't just threaten the design, we threaten a person's continued ability to design. That way, thought not only goes into the R&D (which is fun for designers) but thought [u]also[/u] goes into how they will "play" the ship.


In any event, Corise's design itself is not what is in question. It is the frequency of upgrades after every engagement which WILL affect (IC) the faction the R&D is assocated with, namely, the Galactic Coalition. If you are smart enough to put booby traps on your toilets (exaggeration) in case a boarding enemy needs to take a dump in the middle of a ship takeover, you're smart enough to know that there is nothing without cost. So no crying when it comes time for collection.



[quote]Frankly, being "realistic" isn't what this forum is about. I thought it was about enjoying yourself and having fun...[/quote]

I can have fun building a superlaser on a Tie Fighter and rp'ing a 500 word roleplay describing what that superlaser does to a planet, but I assure you, the moment I roleplay it as destroying the made-up world of Onyx, you'll suddenly not be having fun. Instead, you will have a fit and claim it's not, at the very least, realistic. So, please bear with me. While this is science fiction, we have to have a balance here.



[B]Corise:[/B]

[quote]While we're talking of things supposedly unrealistic, perhaps we should talk about the stygium cloaks the EMPIRE project is using...[/quote]


Tell me, are [i]all[/i] TNO ships outfitted with them? Do all their soldiers (Stormtrooper, Spartan, Spartan II, Dark Trooper) carry such cloaks? Are there upgrades including 2 or more stygium cloaking systems on one ship?


And, more importantly, how many have you [i]roleplayed[/i] against?


If you feel that it was an unfair number, we can talk about it.


But, I think perhaps you are misunderstanding me. It is not your design that is in question. Quite frankly, anyone can design anything and write 500 words explaining in english what their technobabble design says. Just because a design is forwarded and 500 word explanation is written, this does not mean the ship is real, in production or even in existence in the TRF Universe. This is just the requirement before actually playing the ship.

When does the ship come into existence? When it is roleplayed on the battlegrounds in a roleplay that is not the 500 word explanation roleplay.

Some try to insert their 500 word explanation roleplay into a storyline roleplay (or planetary takeover though the 500 word explanation does not count towards a 5000 word takeover) where the vessel would appear in the TRF universe at the same time. And this is fine.


However, in relation to your R&D specifically, Drayson has a point about the cost involved in upgrading ships quickly and frequently. No way around that. But, as is also correctly pointed out by Wes and yourself, the ship is not in play yet and won't be for 'quite a while'. And so, while the design may be in existence in the TRF Universe, the actual prototype ship is not. So the point is moot right now.


Incidentally, what does 'quite a while' mean?

Quite a while? Or next week with the description "A year after Metalorn...". If it's the latter, it may screw with the Timeline a little bit as it does not progress at a regular steady pace.







[b]For the benefit of new fleeters:[/b]

[i]ps - only time I pick on this R&D design.[/i]


Obscure CUSWE or wookeepedia references do not instantly become playable facts or translate well into a intended playable purpose other than what was recorded. So if you enjoy designing your R&D around such references and try to play them, do not be suprised if they do not perform as expected (in a fleet roleplay).



Example:

[quote][b]Taken from above R&D as an example:[/b] Lanthanide is an ultra-dense alloy material was used in the creation of security barriers and personal furniture which was capable of deflecting or absorbing blaster or projectile fire (CUSWE).[/quote]

If you want to slap furniture/building construction materials on a starship as armor, you are well within your rights.

However, this does not mean, in a fleet roleplay, that 1). Your vessel will be capable of deflecting/absorbing military grade weaponry from an enemy ship or 2). All furniture can deflect blaster fire.


Most R&D designs I read is made up of 1). Facts. What the thing has and 2). Propaganda, what it is supposed to do. Obviously it has the propaganda because an IC designer wants his design to be picked up by government contract so they can live like a phat cat.

The above regarding Lanthanide I consider fact.




The following is what I consider propaganda:

[quote]For the Pegasus Mk II, Lanthanide is capable of partially deflecting energy fire and putting up with more energy abuse than most other similarly sized and armored vessels.[/quote]

An inexperienced person might read this to mean that this ship can go toe to toe with XYZ 1,200 meter warship and come out ahead as it can 'take more abuse'. However, the key term is not only 'similar sized' but also 'similar armored'. So unless an enemy ship is also sporting furniture or some sort of building construction materials as armor, it would be incapable of going toe to toe with a vessel of similar size sporting military grade materials for armor.


Now, if other fleeters agree to this being a typo and the intent here was to simply show off knowledge of CUSWE and come up with a creative way of just saying, "It is armored typical for a ship this size" that's fine. But that does not mean ALL fleeters have to recognize it as so.

This is an example, in my opinion, of where too much detail can hurt.

#11 11:46pm 11/01/07

*Sticks with his Impstar Deuce*

#10 7:00pm 11/01/07

Yes, they won't be in action for a quite a while.

I am in agreement with Joren as well.

#9 5:28pm 11/01/07

I will say one thing in response, Drayson and Omnae. Some people actually have fun writing all the detail. You may think this dumb, but when I write a really detailed and long R&D, I am really proud of what I created.

Writing a two paragraph R&D explaining in general what the ship does is frankly boring and completely negates the purpose of this forum. Why the hell have an R&D forum when you DON'T write all the detail? Frankly, being "realistic" isn't what this forum is about. I thought it was about enjoying yourself and having fun...

#8 3:52pm 11/01/07

There's a difference here, though, in that it was only "a flotilla of Victory-class Star Destroyers," not an extraordinary number of ships. It wasn't used to make a new generation of warship.

Either way, I don't expect to see these ships in action for a while yet, as they were just developed after Metalorn.

#7 3:19pm 11/01/07

That's only the hull armor. It wouldn't exactly be the first time that's happened in the Star Wars Universe. I refer to the[URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Doonium]havod incident[/URL] which occured because of a shortage of doonium previously used on Imperial starship hulls.

As well, part of the reason is also the change of the production facilities to begin with. The Confederation recently took over Abhean, whose yards are canonically larger than those of Kashan. They don't have the equipment for Ultrachrome there to begin with, so this wouldn't be matter of replacing equipment for it, since it didn't exist there to begin with.

While we're talking of things supposedly unrealistic, perhaps we should talk about the stygium cloaks the EMPIRE project is using...

#6 2:42pm 11/01/07

Yeah. The thing is, the hull is pretty much the biggest part of the ship. Changing the hull material means starting from scratch, because all of a sudden you have a different material with different properties you have to make work. Then you have to adjust production facilities to work with this different material, replace all the old molds, etc. etc. etc.

And in doing so, throw away all the old molds, production techniques, etc. etc. In short, throw away a whole lot of money.

It would not happen.

#5 2:21pm 11/01/07

The basic design is the same. The main thing that has changed was changing to the Ultrachrome to a different armor which is thinner. That and I removed a couple thousand troops and placed weapons where their barracks were.

#4 8:09am 11/01/07

I think Drayson is right (murder me). I'm in the Air Force and work on C-130H model aircraft. After several years, they only just came out with the newer J models and the planes are few in number.

But I think coming out with an mkII model with a few here-and-there upgrades would be fine...

#3 3:30am 11/01/07

On another note, "how to R&D in a realistic fashion".

This is not a computer real time strategy game, where you click on an icon and sixty seconds later you have advanced 100 years in technology. We intend to roleplay on a realistic level.

What does this have to do with this design (in particular, but this applies in a broader sense as well)?

It's ludicrous to imagine that anyone would go through the extensive process of designing a ship and building it as a mainline cruiser, as this R&D is, and then, months later, go through the process of totally redesigning it!

Look at real life: look how long it takes to develop, design, test, and finally get into production, a new warship or fighter jet. You've admitted that production methods have changed:

[quote]Due to different construction techniques used in the Mk II, the original Pegasi will not be upgraded to the Mk II, and instead will soldier on within the fleet.[/quote]Now, if this were a major warship I could see some slight changes from generation to generation. Each Aircraft carrier built by the United States, for example, is of the [i]Nimtz[/i] class (I believe), but all are slightly different when it comes to implementing new technology.

But this is a) a mainline combat ship, and b) a total redesign.

Realistically, no government would have the money or time to go "wham bam, and an upgrade". That certainly would not happen over a minor engagement - it might happen a decade later when new technology has emerged and the original Pegasus is no longer a cutting edge ship. But not mere months after it entered production. Such a claim is ridiculous, at best.

Now, if the [i]Pegasus[/i] were a one-off, I would understand. I think producing a small number and battle testing them, then upgrading them would be a [b]very[/b] realistic approach to fleeting. But mass producing a ship and then doing a total redesign in response to one engagement is, imho, little short of god moding - it would [b]never[/b] happen in the real world.

General 'patches' are one thing. Say, you determine from this battle that the sensor unit has some kind of fatal flaw. So you issue an upgrade to 1.1, kind of like a product recall, where you bring each ship in and repair it.

But this massive redesign is just silly. Governments do not redesign frontline combat ships because of one engagement, and certainly not in this time frame.

Nevermind the fact that the GC is spending money faster than they can print it atm, and R&D is a VERY expensive proposal.

In light of this, and what Om has posted, I would suggest you consider whether this R&D should be submitted very carefully.

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