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Galactic Citizen

General/TNO R&D: Executor class Star Destroyer

The following is technically an R&D submission, but a post to clear up the hazy areas surrounding the Executor-class Star Destroyer's performance and design so that those that have them (the two left in the galaxy!) can role-play with them more effectively. The numbers below are not an excuse for the owners to completely waste enemy ships or fleets. As always, common sense and not Kach Thorton's speculative R&D thread should be the basis for any of your role-plays involving the vessel in order to make threads more enjoyable for both participants and readers.

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Huge, Powerful, and Majestic, the Executor-class Star Destroyer is considered to be one of the most spectacular and beautiful vessels ever built, even compared to the larger Eclipse-class. However, at least OOC wise, the ship is surrounded by a cloud of mystery and confusion that I intend to address myself.

The biggest and longest lasting debate involving the vessel has been on its length. Official sources, including The Essential Guide to Vessels and Vehicles claim Executor-class Star Destroyers are 8,000 meters long. However, Canon evidence says otherwise. Compared to Imperial-class Star Destroyers on screen in the last two movies, the Executor appears approximately 10 or 11 times longer, twice the size of the "Official" number.

The most widespread explanation for this- and the one both I and from what I've read, TRF, endorse- is that there are in fact two versions of the ship, the larger Executor I at 16,000 or 17,600 meters in length and the II class, of the 8,000 meter length stated by most sources.

By this explanation, the first Executors built- the twin ships Executor and Lusankya - were of the I class, and all later vessels- such as the Knight's Hammer, Guardian, and Iron Fist- were of the smaller II type.

(It should be noted that, on TRF, there is a 12,800 meter long III class that is in service with the Empire. However, to date only one has been built, Bhindi Drayson's flagship, the Acheron.)

This explanation, to me, makes sense. Vader and Isard were very powerful people in Palpatine's Empire and would both certainly merit one of the larger vessels. And with the Empire producing two of these mammoth ships and two Death Stars in just a few years, it would be a natural cost saving measure to develop a budget version for service in fleet elements such as the Black Fleet- The 8,000 meter Executor II.

For armament, Executors of both the I and II class are said to have 250 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 250 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 250 Concussion Missile Tubes, and 250 Heavy Ion Cannons by most sources, once again including the Essential Guide (it should be noted not all do- Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars trilogy gives the Executor 5,000 Turbolasers and 5,000 Ion Cannons). 1000 weapons emplacements is quite a few, yes, but for a ship that has the area of 25 ISDs (to say nothing of volume) that's nothing. Like giving an ISD ten Turbolasers and Ten Ion Cannons. The Imperial Navy has never been, and certainly wasn't then, one to be modest. Rest assured Executors of both the I and II class were armed to the teeth, and that's whey I'm sure the official armament list is incorrect. In addition, 144 fighters is nothing for a ship it's size. Therefore, below I intend to calculate what would be a more reasonable spec, basing the calculations on the three canon variants of ISD. The statistics of the ships are below...

(From the NIF RPG Database)

Name/Type: Imperator Mk I-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Lira Wessex / Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 26,810 + 275 Gunners
Length: 1605 meters
Speed: 60 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 4800 SBD
Hull Rating: 2272 RU
Weapons: 60 Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers (class 5), 60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannons (class 3), 10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (class 6), 2 Minelayers.
Fighter Complement: 6 Squadrons.
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers, 20 AT-ATs , 30 AT-STs, 1 Pre-fabricated Garrison Base.
Support Craft: 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 8 Lambda-class Shuttles, 15 Stormtrooper Transports, 5 Star Wing Assault Gunboats, variable number of Skipray Blastboats, Gamma-class Assault Shuttles, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles.

Name/Type: Imperator Mk II-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 36,755 + 330 Gunners
Length: 1,605 Meters
Speed: 60 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1
Shield Rating: 5760 SBD
Hull Rating: 2953 RU (est.)
Weapons: 50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons, 12 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries, 2 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors, 2 Minelayers.
Fighter Complement: 6 squadrons
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers
Support Craft: 5 Alpha Class XG-1 Star Wings, 15 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports, 8 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles, 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 8 Lambda-class Shuttles, variable number of Skipray Blastboats, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles, 1 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle and 1 TIE Shuttle Craft.

Name/Type: Imperator Mk III-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 36,755 + 668 Gunners
Length: 1,605 Meters
Speed: 70 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1
Shield Rating: 6200 SBD
Hull Rating: 3000 RU
Weapons: 64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons, 30 Heavy Ion Cannons, 64 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries, 10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors, 2 Minelayers, 6 Torpedo Octet Launchers.
Fighter Complement: 6 Squadrons.
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers, 120 Zero-G Assault Troopers, 20 AT-ATs, 30 AT-STs, 1 Pre-fabricated Garrison Base.
Support Craft: 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 6 Alpha-class XG-1 Star Wings, 4 GAT-12m Skipray Blastboats, 15 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports , 8 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles, 3 Gamma Class Assault Shuttles, 48 Probe Droids, 12 Combat Utility Vehicles, 2 TIE/ew and 2 TIE/fc, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles, 1 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle and 1 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Modifications: Integrated Cloaking System

(Yes, I know the speeds are whacked, but other than that I find it the best database on the net).

So those are the figure's I'm going to use as I calculate the below.

Like I was saying, the armament was terribly low for a ship it's size, so...

ISD I
60 Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers (x25= 1,500)
60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannons (x25= 1,500)
10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 250)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)

Using ISD I statistics an Executor II could have 3,300 weapons emplacements, however, the Imperial two was just entering service about the same time, so it's armament might also be used as a basis...

ISD II
50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries (x25= 1,250)
50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons (x25= 1,250)
12 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries (x25= 300)
2 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 50)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)

That gives 3,000, slightly less emplacements than an ISD one. So we can guess the Executor II would have between 3,000-3,300 weapons emplacements when first built, and the Executor I, four times the size of the II, could have between 12,000 and 13,200, quite a few more than the official lists!

Later versions, however, could also derive their number of weapons emplacements from the later Imperial III, which entered service as the cloned Emperor was building up his fleet to strike the New Republic.

64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries (x25= 1,600)
64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons (x25= 1,600)
30 Heavy Ion Cannons (x25= 750)
64 Point Defense Laser Cannons (not counted in Weapons emplacements figure, x25 = 1,600)
10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 250)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)
6 Torpedo Octet Launchers. (each made of 4 PT launchers) (6x4x25= 600)

So later Executor IIs, such as the Knight’s Hammer or Guardian, could have up to 4,850 Weapons Emplacements (Executor IIIs like the Ancheron could have twice this number, 9,700), and another 1,600 Point Defense Laser Cannons.

In addition to actual weapons emplacements, I think the figure of 144 fighters is far too low. So…

72*25 gives us 1,800 fighters for both new and old versions of the Executor II, quite a few. Plus, there’s support craft. I’m not going to stick the calculations on here, there’s too many sub-cap ships and it’d take two or three pages, but here’s what I got…

ISD I
300 Titan-class Landing Barges
200 Lambda-class Shuttles,
375 Stormtrooper Transports,
125 Star Wing Assault Gunboats,
Plus an variable number of Skipray Blastboats, Gamma Assault Shuttles, deep space probes, Probots, and Repair and Recovery vehicles.

ISD II
125 Alpha Class XG-1 Star Wings
375 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports
200 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles
300 Titan-class Landing Barges
25 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle
25 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Plus a variable number of Skipray Blastboats, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles

Therefore, early versions could have carried between 800 and 1,100 shuttles. Later versions, however…

300 Titan-class Landing Barges
150 Alpha-class XG-1 Star Wings
100 GAT-12m Skipray Blastboats
375 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports
200 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles
75 Gamma Class Assault Shuttles
1200 Probe Droids (not included in shuttle figure)
300 Combat Utility Vehicles
50 TIE/ew
50 TIE/fc
25 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Plus a variable number of deep space probes and repair & recovery vehicles.

This gives later ships, such as the Knight’s Hammer a Shuttle Complement of 1,625 along with a fighter complement of 1,800.

Shields aren’t something that is commonly speculated on or debated. It’s generally agreed that they are massive and there’s no need to debate. But by scouring the Internet, I have found the following for shield and Armor ratings…

Wikipedia
Hull Plating 45712 U
Deflector Shielding 96000 U

NIF RPG Database (same place I got the ISD status above)
Shield Rating: 108000 SBD
Hull Rating: 45000 RU

I believe they are low, however. Using an ISD one’s shield and hull ratings, we get the following…

Shield Rating: 4800 SBD (x25 = 120,000 SBD)
Hull Rating: 2272 RU (x25 = 56,800)

Massive! And when ISD II and III ratings are used, the figures only grow…

Shield Rating: 5760 SBD (x25 = 144,000)
Hull Rating: 2953 RU (x25 = 73,825


Shield Rating: 6200 SBD (x25 = 155,000)
Hull Rating: 3000 RU (x25 = 75,000)

Like with armament and fighter complement, these figures would be multiplied 4 times to give the Executor I’s status, or by two to give the Executor IIIs. Dang, that’s big!

As for speed, with ten engines the size of an ISD, I could easily see the ship with twice the maximum speed. However, because that’s just plain unfair, I’d guess it’d be capable of a far more modest 2/3rds of an Imperial Star Destroyer’s Sublight speed, about 12 MGLT.

However, the Executor’s massive power comes at a steep price not only at the space-dock but also in the logistics department. 25 times the size of an ISD, it would make sense for it to also have 25 times the crew complement and troop complement (which would give 677,125 crew with the ISD one and 1,125,125 with the two model, with 242,500 Troops supported by 500 AT-ATs and 750 AT-STs), but I find these figures fantastically high for a ship only 8,000 meters long rivaling the Death Star in sheer manpower (which had only a million souls and maximum complement). A more accurate number, I believe, for the Executor II is the 280,374 crewers stated by Wikipedia with 38,000 troops (with 40 AT-ATs and 60 AT-STs) since many tasks on the smaller ships would overlap and take away a need for many crew such as those on the bridge and in fire control.

So after all that, here’s what we get…*

Executor II-class Star Destroyer
Length- 8,000m
Beam- 3,000m
Height- 850m

Complement- 280,374 Crew plus 38,000 troops (with 40 AT-ATs and 60 AT-STs)

Speed-
a. Normal- 8 MGLT
b. Flanking-12 MGLT
c. Emergency- 16MGLT
Hyperdrive- Class 2

Shields- 112,500 SBD
Hull- 56,800 RU

Fighter Complement- 1,800 Fighters and Bombers in 150 Squadrons
Other Support Craft- 1,500 Shuttles

Armament- (yes there’s 5,000 emplacements, slightly above the ISD III numbers, but I believe that with less crew there’d be more room for power generators and other do dads to allow this.) 1,500 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 1,500 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 1,500 Heavy Ion Cannon Batteries, 500 Misc. Projectile Launchers

(*Executor IIIs would have about twice this number, since they are about twice as big, and Is would have about four times)

So to make a long story short, if you own one of the two Executor-class Star Destroyers in the galaxy you are a very lucky bastard indeed.

Comments

#35 12:25am 04/05/10

For my own comments, I was not satying what was built. I am talking over the last six years or so of Rping. The Conquerors have been around for two years.

The SSD total I quoted you is the total - not new construction, not losses, not any of that. Just the total. Lord knows that many ships could not be built in one year without ceasing all other production, even for something as massive as the Empire. To the best of my knowledge, there are no command ships (read SSDs) in the queue, nor were any completed in the last year.

I can say that there is a new Conqueror slated to be completed in the next few months at the completion of my current thread, command of which will be given to my current flag captain.

#34 12:18am 04/05/10

To Stellar: These SSDs were meant to be symbols of each of the Empire's major sectors. As I stated before, it is very, very unlikely that you will see any two of these together at any time, unless it's something like a second Battle of Coruscant. You're unlikely to see these in most small engagements, absent a storyline reason for it being there (e.g., Sullust, where Wes thought he was going to fight the Cree'Ar and he's still pretty worked-up about them).

On another note, I thought the point of all this was the story that was created? Fairness is one thing, and I'm all in favor of it, but shouldn't the enemies of the Empire simply see this as another challenge? How to take out the Empire's big weapons is a major part of the Star Wars storyline. Death Star, Death Star II, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Darksaber, Iron Fist, Daala's SSD...need I continue?

To Irtar/Kach: Actually, we are going to finish the thread; the fact is that the resources were spent In Character. This was the result.

#33 11:38pm 03/05/10

GET BACK TO WORK.

#32 11:34pm 03/05/10

[QUOTE=Kach Thorton]Yeah, we got lazy and the thread died. But from the first post it's clear something was up that was sapping off a huge amount of resources even if it was left undefined - our Executors.[/QUOTE]

Yes. And Irtar's a knight, and Sinsang controls the League of Nations.

PS: I'm working on it Ahnk, it just has so far come out as run on drivel. Dolash may attest to its literary poorness.

#31 11:21pm 03/05/10

I'm all for fun and games, but building that many SSDs in a single thread at a one single time is just bad form in RPing. Do the imps really need all those big ships? I think it would be so much more fun to actually RP real fleet engagements instead of just bringing a massive SSD fleet to bare to overwhelm everyone. It just stifles the very essence of a good and fun RP.

Sure if you are having coruscant attacked or some planet you can't really do without, you can bring one in. Maybe if you are attacking a massive fortified position, but to just bring around SSDs for "minor" engagements is crazy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have some SSDs, but RPs would be more fun the fleets were similar, meaning a few larger class command ships and a lot of escorts of different classes. That way you have people actually dueling and showing off strategies in the battle, instead of just gunning their way around and make sure that one side looses. It kind of takes the fun out of RP if you know the enemy will just bring in their big boys every time.

RPing should be about loosing ships, give and take, both sides need to learn to loose ships. It's a war and its a game, so just have fun and don't take things too seriously. We have enough seriousness going on in life. We don't need to bring it and conflicts to a fictional world WE helped create. Just enjoy the writing and reading of fun battle posts.

I'm done :)

#30 10:56pm 03/05/10

Yeah, we got lazy and the thread died. But from the first post it's clear something was up that was sapping off a huge amount of resources even if it was left undefined - our Executors.

#29 10:09pm 03/05/10

[color=blue]Citation Here[/color] [URL=http://therebelfaction.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10884&highlight=leviathans]Leviathans: The Hunt Begins[/URL].

And it has no mention of Executor Star Destroyers.

#28 9:33pm 03/05/10

As honorary Plebe I just want the matter worked out so we can go on with sullust. 12k? 8k? 200 guns? 4000 guns? one big wedge? 12 big wedges? ... I do not really care because in the story what has happened has happened and Im ready to get some payback on that big wedge. It is there. everyone agreed Wes could use it. So by default Wes gets an SSD. as for the rest of the empire they can trick us into letting them have one later.

#27 9:26pm 03/05/10

[quote]It was 2-3 years. These hulls were laid down in "Leviathans: The Hunt Begins," which took place (IC) about 1.5-2 years before the events in Cataclysm.[/quote]

[color="blue"][b](CITATION NEEDED.)[/b][/color]

#26 9:23pm 03/05/10

Of course, one of the plebes raised your point for you, Beff, so what are you really doing here anyway?

And Park, that in no way answers my question. How does a one-post "mention" in Cataclysm legitimize the creation of four SUPER FRICKIN' DEATH WEDGES whose only previous member within the Empire, (the Acheron) served just as much as a symbol of Bhindi Drayson's authority as it did actual warship?

Why would she call for the creation of ships which [i]lessen[/i] her own military authority?

edit: Wes beat me to the post.

further edit: there remains an apparent IC disparity between Bhindi Drayson's acquisition of the Acheron as her personal command ship, and her later authorization of four warships of the same class.

#25 9:23pm 03/05/10

Actually, no.

It was 2-3 years. These hulls were laid down in "Leviathans: The Hunt Begins," which took place (IC) about 1.5-2 years before the events in Cataclysm. They were constructed during that time, which was the height of the Empire's post-Wrath Virus power. They were mostly completed by the time the events in Cataclysm began, though not yet operational. Another six months to a year, and they were operational, which occurred in Cataclysm.

At the same time, the Eclipse and the Acheron are gone. So is the Emperor and Bhindi Drayson.

As for why she allowed it, the purpose of these ships was to (1) hunt the Union's SSD or (2) failing that, to have a symbol of terror for each major regional government of the Empire (Core, Borderlands, Mid-Rim, Oversector Outer). Cataclysm changed both those goals, but it didn't change the construction of the ships, since they were built at KDY. Kuat has played no role in Cataclysm, and so, since the ships were paid for up-front, Cataclysm had no effect on their construction.

The point of my post was simply to clear up a discrepency regarding the current SSDs in service to the Empire. I think the 4000-gun rating is a bit much, myself - I'd be willing to drop it to 2000, which I think more reasonable. I used it in the Sullust thread because it's the only real number I could find.

However, as Dolash told me in an IM conversation yesterday:
[quote=Dolash]The number of guns is imaginary at this point. One thousand? Four thousand? It is a big ship. It has a lot of guns. My stance on the issue is that a Super Star Destroyer represents a certain in-universe degree of power that is divorced from the number of guns a technical readout claims it mounts. If an Imperial commander wishes to boast about it being properly gunned now, that's cool, and could be true, but really for story-writing and narrative purposes a Super Star Destroyer is the weapon of doom and death and will be treated accordingly in a story. No matter how many guns it's supposed to mount.[/quote]
This is how I intend to use the ship. It's a big ship with a lot of guns, and it's a symbol of terror.

#24 9:20pm 03/05/10

Yeah, I struggle to see how a group that has lost multiple massive amounts of important real estate (including it's capital), it's entire military and political leadership, and is fighting (and generally concluded to be, by everyone but their own PR department) losing ground to multiple enemies (GC, CA, SOC, PC... I mean, name an acronym, they've taken your shit, and that doesn't even mention the Reavers), kind of just went about business as usual and turned out four massive warships that would bankrupt most governments.

#23 9:08pm 03/05/10

Now, my point raised, I shall sit back and watch the plebes fight amongst themselves.

#22 9:05pm 03/05/10

You built four 12.8km SSDs in a year? while fighting and losing a war?

#21 8:58pm 03/05/10

I must have missed that.

None-the-less, I'm impressed that the Empire (what part, exactly?) had the where-with-all to construct the aforementioned vessels considering everything else going on.

Whatever you say, Park.

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