The Rebel Faction » Universe » Research & Development » General/TNO R&D: Executor class Star Destroyer
General/TNO R&D: Executor class Star Destroyer
The following is technically an R&D submission, but a post to clear up the hazy areas surrounding the Executor-class Star Destroyer's performance and design so that those that have them (the two left in the galaxy!) can role-play with them more effectively. The numbers below are not an excuse for the owners to completely waste enemy ships or fleets. As always, common sense and not Kach Thorton's speculative R&D thread should be the basis for any of your role-plays involving the vessel in order to make threads more enjoyable for both participants and readers.***
Huge, Powerful, and Majestic, the Executor-class Star Destroyer is considered to be one of the most spectacular and beautiful vessels ever built, even compared to the larger Eclipse-class. However, at least OOC wise, the ship is surrounded by a cloud of mystery and confusion that I intend to address myself.
The biggest and longest lasting debate involving the vessel has been on its length. Official sources, including The Essential Guide to Vessels and Vehicles claim Executor-class Star Destroyers are 8,000 meters long. However, Canon evidence says otherwise. Compared to Imperial-class Star Destroyers on screen in the last two movies, the Executor appears approximately 10 or 11 times longer, twice the size of the "Official" number.
The most widespread explanation for this- and the one both I and from what I've read, TRF, endorse- is that there are in fact two versions of the ship, the larger Executor I at 16,000 or 17,600 meters in length and the II class, of the 8,000 meter length stated by most sources.
By this explanation, the first Executors built- the twin ships Executor and Lusankya - were of the I class, and all later vessels- such as the Knight's Hammer, Guardian, and Iron Fist- were of the smaller II type.
(It should be noted that, on TRF, there is a 12,800 meter long III class that is in service with the Empire. However, to date only one has been built, Bhindi Drayson's flagship, the Acheron.)
This explanation, to me, makes sense. Vader and Isard were very powerful people in Palpatine's Empire and would both certainly merit one of the larger vessels. And with the Empire producing two of these mammoth ships and two Death Stars in just a few years, it would be a natural cost saving measure to develop a budget version for service in fleet elements such as the Black Fleet- The 8,000 meter Executor II.
For armament, Executors of both the I and II class are said to have 250 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 250 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 250 Concussion Missile Tubes, and 250 Heavy Ion Cannons by most sources, once again including the Essential Guide (it should be noted not all do- Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars trilogy gives the Executor 5,000 Turbolasers and 5,000 Ion Cannons). 1000 weapons emplacements is quite a few, yes, but for a ship that has the area of 25 ISDs (to say nothing of volume) that's nothing. Like giving an ISD ten Turbolasers and Ten Ion Cannons. The Imperial Navy has never been, and certainly wasn't then, one to be modest. Rest assured Executors of both the I and II class were armed to the teeth, and that's whey I'm sure the official armament list is incorrect. In addition, 144 fighters is nothing for a ship it's size. Therefore, below I intend to calculate what would be a more reasonable spec, basing the calculations on the three canon variants of ISD. The statistics of the ships are below...
(From the NIF RPG Database)
Name/Type: Imperator Mk I-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Lira Wessex / Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 26,810 + 275 Gunners
Length: 1605 meters
Speed: 60 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 4800 SBD
Hull Rating: 2272 RU
Weapons: 60 Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers (class 5), 60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannons (class 3), 10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (class 6), 2 Minelayers.
Fighter Complement: 6 Squadrons.
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers, 20 AT-ATs , 30 AT-STs, 1 Pre-fabricated Garrison Base.
Support Craft: 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 8 Lambda-class Shuttles, 15 Stormtrooper Transports, 5 Star Wing Assault Gunboats, variable number of Skipray Blastboats, Gamma-class Assault Shuttles, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles.
Name/Type: Imperator Mk II-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 36,755 + 330 Gunners
Length: 1,605 Meters
Speed: 60 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1
Shield Rating: 5760 SBD
Hull Rating: 2953 RU (est.)
Weapons: 50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons, 12 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries, 2 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors, 2 Minelayers.
Fighter Complement: 6 squadrons
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers
Support Craft: 5 Alpha Class XG-1 Star Wings, 15 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports, 8 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles, 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 8 Lambda-class Shuttles, variable number of Skipray Blastboats, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles, 1 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle and 1 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Name/Type: Imperator Mk III-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 36,755 + 668 Gunners
Length: 1,605 Meters
Speed: 70 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1
Shield Rating: 6200 SBD
Hull Rating: 3000 RU
Weapons: 64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons, 30 Heavy Ion Cannons, 64 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries, 10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors, 2 Minelayers, 6 Torpedo Octet Launchers.
Fighter Complement: 6 Squadrons.
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers, 120 Zero-G Assault Troopers, 20 AT-ATs, 30 AT-STs, 1 Pre-fabricated Garrison Base.
Support Craft: 12 Titan-class Landing Barges, 6 Alpha-class XG-1 Star Wings, 4 GAT-12m Skipray Blastboats, 15 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports , 8 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles, 3 Gamma Class Assault Shuttles, 48 Probe Droids, 12 Combat Utility Vehicles, 2 TIE/ew and 2 TIE/fc, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles, 1 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle and 1 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Modifications: Integrated Cloaking System
(Yes, I know the speeds are whacked, but other than that I find it the best database on the net).
So those are the figure's I'm going to use as I calculate the below.
Like I was saying, the armament was terribly low for a ship it's size, so...
ISD I
60 Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers (x25= 1,500)
60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannons (x25= 1,500)
10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 250)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)
Using ISD I statistics an Executor II could have 3,300 weapons emplacements, however, the Imperial two was just entering service about the same time, so it's armament might also be used as a basis...
ISD II
50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries (x25= 1,250)
50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons (x25= 1,250)
12 Borstel RH8 Laser Cannon Batteries (x25= 300)
2 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 50)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)
That gives 3,000, slightly less emplacements than an ISD one. So we can guess the Executor II would have between 3,000-3,300 weapons emplacements when first built, and the Executor I, four times the size of the II, could have between 12,000 and 13,200, quite a few more than the official lists!
Later versions, however, could also derive their number of weapons emplacements from the later Imperial III, which entered service as the cloned Emperor was building up his fleet to strike the New Republic.
64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries (x25= 1,600)
64 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Cannons (x25= 1,600)
30 Heavy Ion Cannons (x25= 750)
64 Point Defense Laser Cannons (not counted in Weapons emplacements figure, x25 = 1,600)
10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (x25= 250)
2 Minelayers (x25= 50)
6 Torpedo Octet Launchers. (each made of 4 PT launchers) (6x4x25= 600)
So later Executor IIs, such as the Knight’s Hammer or Guardian, could have up to 4,850 Weapons Emplacements (Executor IIIs like the Ancheron could have twice this number, 9,700), and another 1,600 Point Defense Laser Cannons.
In addition to actual weapons emplacements, I think the figure of 144 fighters is far too low. So…
72*25 gives us 1,800 fighters for both new and old versions of the Executor II, quite a few. Plus, there’s support craft. I’m not going to stick the calculations on here, there’s too many sub-cap ships and it’d take two or three pages, but here’s what I got…
ISD I
300 Titan-class Landing Barges
200 Lambda-class Shuttles,
375 Stormtrooper Transports,
125 Star Wing Assault Gunboats,
Plus an variable number of Skipray Blastboats, Gamma Assault Shuttles, deep space probes, Probots, and Repair and Recovery vehicles.
ISD II
125 Alpha Class XG-1 Star Wings
375 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports
200 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles
300 Titan-class Landing Barges
25 Gamma Class Assault Shuttle
25 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Plus a variable number of Skipray Blastboats, deep space probes, probe droids and repair & recovery vehicles
Therefore, early versions could have carried between 800 and 1,100 shuttles. Later versions, however…
300 Titan-class Landing Barges
150 Alpha-class XG-1 Star Wings
100 GAT-12m Skipray Blastboats
375 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports
200 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles
75 Gamma Class Assault Shuttles
1200 Probe Droids (not included in shuttle figure)
300 Combat Utility Vehicles
50 TIE/ew
50 TIE/fc
25 TIE Shuttle Craft.
Plus a variable number of deep space probes and repair & recovery vehicles.
This gives later ships, such as the Knight’s Hammer a Shuttle Complement of 1,625 along with a fighter complement of 1,800.
Shields aren’t something that is commonly speculated on or debated. It’s generally agreed that they are massive and there’s no need to debate. But by scouring the Internet, I have found the following for shield and Armor ratings…
Wikipedia
Hull Plating 45712 U
Deflector Shielding 96000 U
NIF RPG Database (same place I got the ISD status above)
Shield Rating: 108000 SBD
Hull Rating: 45000 RU
I believe they are low, however. Using an ISD one’s shield and hull ratings, we get the following…
Shield Rating: 4800 SBD (x25 = 120,000 SBD)
Hull Rating: 2272 RU (x25 = 56,800)
Massive! And when ISD II and III ratings are used, the figures only grow…
Shield Rating: 5760 SBD (x25 = 144,000)
Hull Rating: 2953 RU (x25 = 73,825
Shield Rating: 6200 SBD (x25 = 155,000)
Hull Rating: 3000 RU (x25 = 75,000)
Like with armament and fighter complement, these figures would be multiplied 4 times to give the Executor I’s status, or by two to give the Executor IIIs. Dang, that’s big!
As for speed, with ten engines the size of an ISD, I could easily see the ship with twice the maximum speed. However, because that’s just plain unfair, I’d guess it’d be capable of a far more modest 2/3rds of an Imperial Star Destroyer’s Sublight speed, about 12 MGLT.
However, the Executor’s massive power comes at a steep price not only at the space-dock but also in the logistics department. 25 times the size of an ISD, it would make sense for it to also have 25 times the crew complement and troop complement (which would give 677,125 crew with the ISD one and 1,125,125 with the two model, with 242,500 Troops supported by 500 AT-ATs and 750 AT-STs), but I find these figures fantastically high for a ship only 8,000 meters long rivaling the Death Star in sheer manpower (which had only a million souls and maximum complement). A more accurate number, I believe, for the Executor II is the 280,374 crewers stated by Wikipedia with 38,000 troops (with 40 AT-ATs and 60 AT-STs) since many tasks on the smaller ships would overlap and take away a need for many crew such as those on the bridge and in fire control.
So after all that, here’s what we get…*
Executor II-class Star Destroyer
Length- 8,000m
Beam- 3,000m
Height- 850m
Complement- 280,374 Crew plus 38,000 troops (with 40 AT-ATs and 60 AT-STs)
Speed-
a. Normal- 8 MGLT
b. Flanking-12 MGLT
c. Emergency- 16MGLT
Hyperdrive- Class 2
Shields- 112,500 SBD
Hull- 56,800 RU
Fighter Complement- 1,800 Fighters and Bombers in 150 Squadrons
Other Support Craft- 1,500 Shuttles
Armament- (yes there’s 5,000 emplacements, slightly above the ISD III numbers, but I believe that with less crew there’d be more room for power generators and other do dads to allow this.) 1,500 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 1,500 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 1,500 Heavy Ion Cannon Batteries, 500 Misc. Projectile Launchers
(*Executor IIIs would have about twice this number, since they are about twice as big, and Is would have about four times)
So to make a long story short, if you own one of the two Executor-class Star Destroyers in the galaxy you are a very lucky bastard indeed.
Comments
#65 1:54am 05/05/10
Ok...I am an Imperial, and now I am confused as well.
#64 10:02pm 04/05/10
I think Wes is a jackass, but only because he doesn't return my booty calls.
#63 9:47pm 04/05/10
If you argue long enough, eventually you'll start arguing against yourself, and it's right about then that you figure out what's really going on.
So here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to cut and paste various lines from the long and retarded post I have ready to go in the internet browser tab next to this one, and I'm going to post that revised assemblage of pontifications for all of you to read and consider.
The events of Cataclysm you so nicely numerated were mostly created by you, as elements of an overarching story, to inspire writing and encourage [i]friendly[/i] conflict once more. We voted (for the most part: I didn't, but that's because I don't vote :) ) for those events. Admittedly, I was happy to see the Empire take the brunt of your wrath, but I am also keenly aware that the story is not yet over.
This discussion has gone very far down the rabbit hole, as so many have before. Thankfully, no one's started yelling yet (yes, I do realize I did some ALL CAPS at some point back there; sorry).
Let me say that I am confident Wes is not a jackass, and I'm sure he hasn't initiated some master plan of jackassery to deny us any hope of success at Sullust. Wes wants to win, Corise wants to win, I want to win, I bet even Reshmar wants to win; neither side wants to lose because the other side was being "unfair". The result is three pages of gun counts and thread links.
By this point, I'm sure some of us have lost track of what it is we're actually arguing for. I know it's starting to get fuzzy for me. Darth Vader was involved . . . somewhere. There was mention of a Darksaber. Drayson's not around so it's okay, or something.
Both in-character and out-of-character, the mindsets of Imperial players seem to be greatly different than my own, and apparently those of the writers on my side of the "line". Simply put: I don't get it (Super Star Destroyers). It doesn't fit for me. Until recently, the Cooperative military was commanded from the bridge of a [i]Venator[/i]-class Star Destroyer. Jarvis Ragnar commands a fleet of corvettes. Mr. Universe . . . talks . . . to people.
I believe that that disparity between our beliefs, however, is best settled in another arena, in-character. If you really want your Executor Star Destroyers, if they "work" for you, then that's fine. To each his own.
You bring your guns, I'll bring mine, and we'll settle this where it matters (I use that word loosely; this is fan fiction, after all :) ).
Corise, Ahnk, Beff, whoever: feel free to continue the debate in my absence. I await only a resolution.
I'm here for ass-kicking and name-taking, and this little chat of ours is getting boring.
Oh, and Om, how big do you think Smarts is? (And admittedly, yes, that last little bit from my last post shouldn't have made it to the final draft.)
Edit: I don't know who did it or if it was on purpose, but well done.
Another edit: Number 8 made me feel bad, Omnae. I thought you guys had forgotten about me, that's all.
#62 9:33pm 04/05/10
Zark - there was one thread where he used a ship as a flag other than [i]Galactus[/i] but it was a Venerator SD which is 6000-6500 meters, I believe.
#61 8:34pm 04/05/10
My apologies. I was informed otherwise.
#60 8:15pm 04/05/10
Let me see if I get this straight...
1. The systematic gutting of TNO in as few words as possible. Number of people who have a problem with it: 0
2. The magical creation of the Reavers who have their own ships and "take over" untold tens (if not hundreds) of starships from existing groups and destroy tens (if not hundreds) more. Number of people who have a problem with it: 0
3. The magical creation of a kick-ass Cree'Ar armada that has smashed TNO fortress worlds and taken the capital of their faction while only holding less than a handful of worlds. Number of people who have a problem with it: 0
4. Kach Thorton coming up with newly minted SSD's to do "something" about the Cree'Ar kicking TNO around Coruscant and failing. Number of people who had a problem with it: 0
5. The realization that when Cataclysm ends, the Cree'Ar will have a crap-load of warships and a plethora of targets. Number of people who probably have not thought about it because they are too busy reveling in TNO's demise? 1,243 (give or take)
6. Of Ahnk saying "no", he's not going to wipe the floor with his new fleet and you do not have to kiss his ass. Number of people who'll believe him? 0
7. Number of times TNO has bitched about their losing more planets than most of TRF factions: 0
8. Number of times Smarts has bitched about his damned asteriod: 1,243 (give or take)
9. Number of people who, while not complaining about the existence of 4 SSDS, are now complaining about the number of guns on them: 1,243 (give or take)
10. Number of people threatening an arms race of unimaginable intensity and scope due to those numbers of guns: 1 (though to be fair, he just said "arms race").
11. Number of times Cataclysm has been viewed at the time of this writing: 7,567
12. Number of different people who have really read it since the existence of new SSDs is somehow surprising: 5
[quote]There's also the issue of TNO being on the order of one-ten thousandth the size of the Canon Empire, but "we don't talk about that".[/quote]
If we did, then Smarts/Guardian would not be a character on TRF since the resources needed to support a ship of his girth would take more than half the Coalition and I think they would want other ships. Of course, since you cannot deny someone a character, he'd probably be a blastboat.
Zark - Kaine has never had an SSD. His command ship was the [i]Galactus[/i] and was originally a Reign Class Star Destroyer. After it's last refit, it became a bastardized Reign Class SD at 5,000 meters (or round abouts) instead of it's typical 2000 meters. It was a single ship and not a class.
#59 8:04pm 04/05/10
I have to hand it to Vance, Park's new avatar makes me want to read what he says.
#58 7:18pm 04/05/10
Alright, I want this Sullust thread to continue, so let me clarify a few things:
(1) When I say 2000 guns, I mean exactly that. Separated into batteries, that makes 400 batteries total. That means 200 Turbolaser batteries and 200 Heavy turbolaser batteries, which, by the way, is less than even the standard 8000 meter ship is supposed to have, since the stats for that were originally 250/250 batteries. So Corise, stop whining.
(2) I'll take the 8,000 meter ship for myself for Sullust and all subsequent threads. I think it's stupid, the arguments for it are crap, but if it'll resolve this whole crap I'm willing to do it.
(3) Smarts, you know very well that is [i]not[/i] what I meant. What the others do with theirs is not up to me, but my position is that I have an 8 kilometer Star Destroyer at Sullust with 2000 guns.
#57 7:13pm 04/05/10
Precedent: Retroactive action to influence current affairs based out-lined or incomplete threads.
Ruling: No.
Logic: Some of you have been around long enough to know that we've dealt with this issue many times in the past and each time it has been agreed that this constitutes a breach of the Common Sense guideline. Why? Because it is unfair and will inevitably be met by the same.
Fact: TNO (members of) may have started Leviathans previously with the intention of building new war-ships. However, as the thread never progressed to that point it would be unfair to now allow an exception based on intent without action.
Hypothesis: If you can go back, based on old, incomplete ideas and retroactively express intentions which would dramatically alter your position in the present then why can't I? Did I not mention that in an old thread of mine I had planned to sabotage all TNO construction efforts on ships over 2km in length, to establish a band of insurgents who would, without my input, attempt to damage or disrupt all Imperial ship construction? Well, I had intended on it but only referenced it in the thread I have not yet completed, however; since I plan to go back and finish the thread TNO cannot use any SSD size ships until such time.
Note to TNO: In Cataclysm you might have skated by based on old, now out-dated beliefs about the scope and size of the Empire. That was then, and this is now. If I have to listen to one more Imperial-type talk about the expansive and all encompassing breadth of the Empire as if anyone actually buys their propaganda in this post-Cataclysm environment I am going to shit.
Last but not least: I am lazy as hell and therefor am not going to do the research necessary to determine the validity of these new SSD's and their existence in the galaxy but its a safe bet that others will, and they will report their findings and if a consensus cannot be reached by the involved membership then the staff will be forced to get involved.
#56 6:01pm 04/05/10
So now I can decide that I need five plus Executors and it's okay.
"Deciding I need" something and reasonably being able to have something are vastly different things.
You seem to think four Executors are reasonable because three years ago a group of Imperial writers which excluded all of the actual Imperial leadership decided to start a thread that might eventually have gotten around to saying "we're gonna build some Executors". Obviously a significant portion of the community disagrees.
And the point stands: you all want to be Darth Vader (except, you know, likable, or something), and you're not.
There's also the issue of TNO being on the order of one-ten thousandth the size of the Canon Empire, but "we don't talk about that".
#55 4:35pm 04/05/10
You guys misinterpreted the whole meaning of this post. It's not an R&D, it was a public post by me to make some sense of the ridiculously low reported firepower of the ESD- Leviathans wasn't even started when I put this up, I believe. There is no "original" and "new" SSD. Overall armament never really would have changed, but Lucasarts tends to get a lot wrong (they said the Executor was only 8,000m originally, for example, it it took them years before they finally changed it despite video proof the number was wrong).
@Corise: Fair play is, of course, the only standard on TRF and numbers in R&Ds mean nothing.
[QUOTE=Corise Lucerne]If this is how they will be used, as in very sparingly, I would have as few as problems with them. If it's essentially going to be used as a command ship that inspires IC terror and not as much as a monstrous barge of turbolasers, that's great. I won't have many problems with it, because it's mostly a story-telling device.
Now I know that Wes' use of a SSD at Sullust is suppose to be an exception, but I'm a bit more concerned that that will become the norm. As in every subsequent engagement will feature an SSD at the spearpoint of a TNO attack fleet completely demolishing sections of a fleet within one post. This is not to say that it should never be featured as a barge of turbolasers (especially when defending something like Kuat or Coruscant), but such instances should probably be very few if it's not to create arguments.
If this is the case, things will go more smoothly, but it appears that some things need to be talked about on the Imperial side to figure out resource allocation based on both Kraken's and Telan's post. I'll refrain on commenting much more until those things are worked out.
I should probably be clear in that for me, firepower per SSD and number of SSDs cannot be separated. For example, I would have much less opposition (as in probably none) if the Empire had six SSDs IF they were the original design used at TRF.
Why?
Because the combined firepower of six of the original SSDs does not even equal the firepower of [I]one[/I] of these new SSDs. The weapons per meterage of these new SSDs is significantly higher than the old weapons per meterage that the old SSD used. And of course, another problem is that numerical stats for older command ships of all factions are based on the original SSD.
What does this mean in the real TRF RPing environment?
It makes the current Revanche-class Star Defender that the Confederation uses significantly under-gunned. But am I really going to continue to use a ship that will called out as undergunned compared to this new SSD?
No.
What I will do is upgrade the Revanche-class in a new R&D, making it at least as equal as this new SSD in terms of weapons per meterage. I'll probably also update it with new technologies and what not. Moreover, if the Empire uses these new SSDs more as fleeting ships than symbols, the Confederation will at least specifically construct more Revanche II Star Defenders to match the Empire's (ships per planet).
Essentially, this new SSD will trigger an arms race.[/QUOTE]
#54 4:13pm 04/05/10
[QUOTE=Park Kraken]I don't know where Kach is coming from about all four still being intact. It was my interpretation that one was destroyed by the Cree'Ar at Yaga Minor while still under construction, and another was destroyed by the same at the Battle of Coruscant during the initial Cree'Ar assault, leaving one intact in the hands of MRP and another finishing up at Kuat that will be assigned to Kach and his power base.[/QUOTE]
Drayson's flag is gone from Yaga Minor. Hyfe's flag was an ESD. It's "lost". Not lost.
#53 3:24pm 04/05/10
[QUOTE]Having an SSD will tip the scales of any battles, but most commanders are retiscent to bring them into line because they are command ships, not necessarily ships of the line.[/QUOTE]
If this is how they will be used, as in very sparingly, I would have as few as problems with them. If it's essentially going to be used as a command ship that inspires IC terror and not as much as a monstrous barge of turbolasers, that's great. I won't have many problems with it, because it's mostly a story-telling device.
Now I know that Wes' use of a SSD at Sullust is suppose to be an exception, but I'm a bit more concerned that that will become the norm. As in every subsequent engagement will feature an SSD at the spearpoint of a TNO attack fleet completely demolishing sections of a fleet within one post. This is not to say that it should never be featured as a barge of turbolasers (especially when defending something like Kuat or Coruscant), but such instances should probably be very few if it's not to create arguments.
[QUOTE]I don't know where Kach is coming from about all four still being intact. It was my interpretation that one was destroyed by the Cree'Ar at Yaga Minor while still under construction, and another was destroyed by the same at the Battle of Coruscant during the initial Cree'Ar assault, leaving one intact in the hands of MRP and another finishing up at Kuat that will be assigned to Kach and his power base.
As for construction capacity, I assumed that these four vessels represented 75% of all construction capacity of the Empire during this time period, and contributed to the crisis of a shortage of hulls that the Empire now faces.[/QUOTE]
If this is the case, things will go more smoothly, but it appears that some things need to be talked about on the Imperial side to figure out resource allocation based on both Kraken's and Telan's post. I'll refrain on commenting much more until those things are worked out.
I should probably be clear in that for me, firepower per SSD and number of SSDs cannot be separated. For example, I would have much less opposition (as in probably none) if the Empire had six SSDs IF they were the original design used at TRF.
Why?
Because the combined firepower of six of the original SSDs does not even equal the firepower of [I]one[/I] of these new SSDs. The weapons per meterage of these new SSDs is significantly higher than the old weapons per meterage that the old SSD used. And of course, another problem is that numerical stats for older command ships of all factions are based on the original SSD.
What does this mean in the real TRF RPing environment?
It makes the current Revanche-class Star Defender that the Confederation uses significantly under-gunned. But am I really going to continue to use a ship that will called out as undergunned compared to this new SSD?
No.
What I will do is upgrade the Revanche-class in a new R&D, making it at least as equal as this new SSD in terms of weapons per meterage. I'll probably also update it with new technologies and what not. Moreover, if the Empire uses these new SSDs more as fleeting ships than symbols, the Confederation will at least specifically construct more Revanche II Star Defenders to match the Empire's (ships per planet).
Essentially, this new SSD will trigger an arms race.
#52 2:58pm 04/05/10
Telan, the keels were laid down (or were supposed to be, and will retroactively be since we've now decided to finish the thread) in "Leviathans: The Hunt Begins." One was finished early and sent to Coruscant. The other three were then launched just after the battle and dispersed to the various commanders. Thorton gets one, as the new Regent and head of the Borderlands. Park gets one, as Emperor and former Mid-Rim governor. Wes gets one as military head of Oversector Outer (technically it would be Moff Zhukov's, but the Moff has no need for a warship himself, and hence it falls to Wes).
@ Smarts: I quote Han Solo: "There are a lot of command ships."
That, to me, shows that while we only ever [i]see[/i] one SSD in the movies, that doesn't mean it's the only one. Granted, probably none of the others are going to measure up to the size of Vader's flag, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
The Empire, whether through wisdom or folly, decided that it was big enough to need five plus and Eclipse. In the intervening time, the Eclipse and the Acheron were destroyed/are missing. That leaves the four new ships.
@Telan again: The IC reason for the SSD being at Sullust, by the way, is that Wes thinks that is the Cree'Ar's next target. There were some odd readings from the system. The fact that it was Rebels and not Cree'Ar just made him mad. Should he have taken it, IC? Probably not. He's putting it in danger for little reason. Would that make sense to him, IC, right now? Not a chance. Will the SSD end up in a small engagement like this again? Probably not.
#51 2:11pm 04/05/10
I thought they were being finished after the battle, and yours was finished early but the way I was RPing Timelines during Cata (jumping between the distant past and the near future several times per post) confused Om too.
Did we lose one at Coruscant? I through yours was the only one that came to Coruscant since the Core's flagship was Hyfe's Eclipse. That would leave three hulls.
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