Summit-class Battleship
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” ~Charles DarwinChange.
The face of the galaxy has changed.
No longer do fleets of the Black Dragon Empire and the Galactic Coalition clash in mass battle. No longer does Simon Kaine lead the nearly unstoppable Imperial war machine. No longer is the Empire at rest, with Rebellions cropping up across its space. No longer is the Confederation an infant subfaction of the Coalition gearing up for war with BDE. But rather, it is a reasonably sized independent government barely singed by galactic war. It has become a fortified haven of peace and freedom.
With the Confederation’s transformation into a more peaceful state, so does that of the nature of the Confederate Military. Funds are increasingly being allocated for potent and cheaper ground defences rather than the expensive, high-tech warships which KDI designed to liberate the Tion Sector. Compounding the problem, there is a wide diversification of warship designs among local defence fleets. Making maintenance and supply a nightmare for large fleet expeditions, as well as making it difficult to train, rotate and promote service personnel across a multitude of ship types. Thus, while a diverse fleet of high-tech warships may look exceptionally effective on paper, it is prohibitively costly for most governments to pursue in addition to its logistical problems. Inspired by the New Republic’s successful response to a similar situation with its New Class modernization program, the Confederation has started its Unity Project.
As ships from the Unity Project are introduced, older vessels will be gradually replaced and their crews put onto their newer, cheaper, and less maintenance-intensive ships (though many service people are retiring as the chance of conflict lessens). Local governments do have the option of overriding this project, but they then must individually pay for extra planetary defences which are becoming standard across Confederation space. Thus far, only Kashan and New Oceanus have rejected the bill, mostly because of their defence resting in concealment as well partially because of the local influence of KDI.
General Ship Overview:
“These ships may well be economic and logistical triumphs, but I would much prefer to face our enemies in the newest wave of KDI’s technological terrors.”
~ Rear Admiral Corise Lucerne, SCO, Confederate Armed Forces
Unity Project ships in general have below average costs, good mobility, a peacetime dual purpose, and excellent armor coverage but lack heavy firepower. Various laborsaving devices and automation reduce crew sizes to cut costs in paying crewmembers and consumables. In addition, Unity ships are designed to accommodate a wide variety of parts to make logistics, upgrading, and repair easier at the cost of battle efficiency. Unity Project ships are built utilizing heavily standardized components for improved logistics, ease of training, and cheaper costs; thus, default components like powercells, engines, weapons, etc are often identical on a smaller ship and a significantly larger ship, though they do vary by amount. Most designs are intentionally simple and designed for mass-production, meaning that if the Confederation was attacked, large numbers of them could be quickly produced and green crews could easily adapt to them for mass fielding. Nearly all Unity ships are based on existing designs and technologies. One technology found on all ships is the Multi-Core Power System and an Anti-concussion Field Generator.
Name/Type: Summit-class Battleship
Designer/Manufacturer: Confederation Defence Industries
Designation: Battleship
Crew: 6,795 + 694 Gunners
Length: 4200 Meters
Speed: 10 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1
Shield Rating: 8000 SBD + 4600 SBD Pinpoint (+ 12600 SBD Backup)
Hull Rating: 8300 RU
Weapons: 6 CCA III-2 Dual Very Heavy Multi-role Particle Cannons, 40 CCA X-9 Very Heavy Turbolaser Batteries, 60 CCA IV-7 Autogun Batteries, 100 CCA I-7 Defence Cluster Batteries, 224 Meteor Rocket Turrets, 20 Tractor Beam Projectors.
Fighter Complement: 156 Medium Starfighters or other equivalent (often 390 Piranhas).
Troops: 20,750 Troopers, 25 Heavy Vehicles, and 40 Medium Vehicles or other equivalent.
Support Craft: 20 Heavy Transports, 30 Light Transports.
Other: Anti-concussion Field Projectors, Automated Factories
Description: The Summit-class Battleship is the pinnacle design of the Unity Project, and undoubtedly the most complicated of them not only because of its scale, but the sheer amount of nonstandard weapon and production technologies included in it from around the Confederation: for essentially, the Summit is a hybrid battle-factory ship. Not only is it capable of destroying a fleet, but it can build one given the time and resources. As warship though, its performance is rather standard for a ship its size. As a factory ship using World Devastator technology, the Summit is capable of building anything from small arms and droids to various starships and prefabricated structures. Like the World Devastator, the Summit-class is capable of gradually modifying itself over time according to the ship’s needs (such changes will be RPed out and noted here with that particular ship, and with a link to the said RP).
Technical Descriptions:
Relative Cost: Average
Cost: The Summit uses many civilian-grade systems like the rest of the Unity vessels, and a fair amount of automation, making it somewhat cheaper than most other warships of the same size. However, the advanced warfare technology and the production facilities drive the costs back up, making it averagely priced for a ship its size.
Speed: Average
Engines: The Summit is slow ship compare to the star destroyers and cruisers which most navies field. However, for its size, the Summit has an average speed. Unlike other warships of its size, the Summit is fairly maneuverable from its advanced etheric rudder designs first used on the Seraph Mk III. This does not make the ship as maneuverable as any of the Coalition’s New Wave ships. As with other Unity ships, the Summit has dedicated maintenance and repair crews composed of LE Repair Droids supervised by human mechanics to repair damages and tune the engines for optimal speed.
Shield Rating: Average
Shields: The Summit sports two sets of shields. The first is a standard deflector shield array which provides average protection for a ship it’s size. The second is a combination of a weaker standard deflection shield generator system and a Pin-point shield system. The Pinpoint Shield is a defence system that uses a number of small, fast moving 'Force Shields' like those of the JK-series droids to intercept specific incoming attacks. The advantage of this system over conventional shields is that it is designed to quickly absorb massive amounts of damage in one spot; effectively negating penetrative attacks for weaker-all-around shield coverage.
Armor: Above Average
Armor: The Summits sports heavier armor plating that most ships its size, and like other Unity ships and many Confederation ships before it, the Summit comes equipped with Electric Reactive armor. Unlike other ships before it, the Summit also incorporates woven reflexive superconductors into the main armor plates. In doing so, the Summit can distribute the enemy electro-magnetic attacks across the entire hull. Thus a heavy ion or EMP strike designed to take out one specific system would instead create minor system fluctuations and failures across the entire ship. This part of the armor does nothing against turbolaser or other energy attacks.
Weapons: Average
Weapons: The Summit sports fewer weapons emplacements than most ships its size, but the ones it does sport tend to be significantly heavier, and more dangerous. This effectively makes the Summit ideal for taking out larger ships through penetration attacks at the cost of making it less effective against many other smaller targets. Most of the Summits weaponry is unique or is shared with only a few other designs within the Confederation.
CCA III-2 Dual Very Heavy Multi-role Particle Cannon: The best known particle cannons are ion cannons or the generic particle cannons used on Arakyd’s Tank Droids. However, all particle cannons fire magnetically contained balls of subatomic particles. Particle cannons operate on a similar principle as the railgun except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles. The CCA III-2 is only different from these examples in its size, and in that it is capable of switching the type of particles infused in the plasma in order to match the situation. All particles, however, deal large amounts of kinetic and thermal damage at the cost of range (like ion cannons, the III-2’s range is 66% of that of a standard heavy turbolaser). Some particle cartridges can be used which provide the III-2 with range greater than a heavy turbolaser, but the damage for the weapon’s size is severely lacking. The only nonstandard cartridge of note allows the III-2 to partially perform like an ion cannon, dealing ionic and kinetic damage to the target. The III-2s are clearly visible on the Summit’s hull as the large turrets directly before the bridge.
CCA X-9 Very Heavy Turbolaser: This is almost average heavy turbolaser, save for its size and subsequent power, which is four times that of the XX-9s used on the Imperator-class Star Destroyer line. Unlike most turbolasers, the X-9 uses beamsplitters to improve its already powerful penetrating capabilities. Of course, weapons of this size are not remotely ideal to hunting many or smaller starships, even those of corvette size. They are, however, quite ideal to making short work of the star destroyer that strayed too close to the Summit.
CCA IV-7 Autogun: A multi-barrel autocannon whose design uses railguns arrayed in a gatling gun arrangement. With each individual barrel being the size of a light turbolaser and the use of maglev turrets, the CCA IV-7 has excellent tracking ability. It has an excellent rate of fire and armor piercing abilities, but lacks accuracy at long ranges and a relatively small amount of damage per shell. It is primarily designed to destroy subsystems on enemy capital ships, and would be a terribly inefficient way to destroy any enemy vessel. The IV-7 fires two types of shells: Pilum and Falarica. The Pilum shell is an attempt to combine the penetration of a solid shot with the versatility of a flechette round. It consists of a Mirrsteel Sabot shell with a payload of explosive-tipped Ferrocarbon Flechettes. When the shell hits, the kinetic energy of the shell and the solid sabot pierce through the armor and release the flechettes into the hull itself to destroy a small area directly beneath the armor. The Falarica is a fairly standard shell with a high yield thermal nuclear warhead shell. Typically used as basically a proton torpedo.
CCA I-7 Defence Cluster: The Defence Cluster is a combination of Caltrop 5 Launchers and rapid-fire autoblaster designed to destroy enemy warheads and starfighters. There are four Caltrop 5 Launchers and autoblasters per blister. The cluster allows these point-defence weapons excellent tracking and protection at the cost of smaller firing vectors and centralization. Each cluster appears as a slightly raised blister or bump from the ship’s hull.
Meteor Rocket Turrets: The Meteor rocket is much like a miniaturized Starflare missile, minus the armor-piercing warhead and the hyperdrive, and shrunk to a size just below that of most starfighter-grade munitions. The result is a stealthy missile (from its carbide construction and small size) with a high refire rate and a substandard range. The Meteor Rocket Launchers consists of a small, heavily armored turret which houses four accelerators capable of firing relatively small rockets slightly smaller than starfighter-grade missiles. Thus, when the turrets fire, the accelerators provide high acceleration and initial speed for the rocket; allowing the rocket to close in on its target faster and with improved range. Each rocket is made out of Quadranium Carbide for lower cost, stealth, and durability and is powered by a high power, solid fuel engine akin to those used on Vulture Drones. In an effort to keep costs down and to deter ECM warfare, meteors have only the most basic of tracking systems (much like space bombs). Meteors can be used for any number of things, such as destroying missiles inbound to other ships, to destroying starfighters and light transports, or if fielded in large numbers, take down capital ships. Each meteor is capable of carrying the following warheads.
Electrite Crystal: An old Confederation favorite taken from the Starflare, when the warhead contains two electrite crystals. When the rocket’s impact forces the two crystals together, they promptly disintegrate everything unshielded within a twenty meter radius. Against shield targets, it acts like a typical explosive.
Thermal: This warhead contains a thermal well, as developed by the Alliance during the Civil War. When the warhead hits, the thermal well is activated. The mixture of baradium and stabilized baradium ignites rather than explodes. The resulting thermal reaction last for several seconds and reaches temperatures of several thousand degrees, hot enough to melt through five meters of permacrete. This weapon does not a large blast radius, but has a very one which (for a capship) can be very deep.
EMP: This warhead contains an Electrostatic Charge Detonator. When the warhead hits the target, a powerful electrostatic discharge is generated across a large blast radius. Living beings are electrocuted (most hulls are metallic and conduct electricity) while circuitry in the area is fused or damaged and thus rendered inoperable.
Acid: This warhead is filled with liquid doonium acid. Thus, when the rocket hits the target, this strong acid is spread out across the hull, and begins to eat through, or corrode, everything in which it comes in contact with. T
KEP (Kinetic Energy Penetrator): A simple warhead made out of heavily hardened and reinforced ferrocarbon. Thus, this weapon uses its high speed and relatively high mass to inflict heavy kinetic damage. Against lighter hulls, the Thorn typically pierces through the hull. Against heavier armored targets, the kinetic impact typically vaporizes both the missile and some of the armor. Against mediumly armored opponents, the effects are somewhat in between the two. KEPs are often used to take down opposing missiles.
Complements: Below Average
Complements: The Summit’s complements are somewhat smaller than many ships of its size because the factory production facilities take up a fair amount of the ship’s internal volume. Because of the limited amount of volume and the onboard factories, many Confederate planners believe that the Summit should entirely use automated units (Piranhas, Paladins, Observers, etc) to be able to field around the same number of units as most other ships its size. It is unclear though if this will actually happen.
Factories: The Summit uses technology from World Devastators as provided for by Thomork, the now-Confederate world for World Devastators were originally produced. Essentially, the Summit is capable of drawing in asteroids and other material into several bays where molecular furnaces break down the material and reorganize them into new types of materials. From there, various automated fabrication units, such as machining scanners, robotic lathes, and automated assembley lines turn the material into new products, whether they be ammunition, droids, weapons, buildings, starships, to make modifications on the said Summit, et cetera. This process can be somewhat expedited by ships bringing already refined material (particularly Montcalm frigates). The Summit’s internal bays are only large enough to be able to hold the construction of a ship up to nine hundred meters in length. However, the Summit can build larger ships by producing the hull in sections and then assembling them into a complete ship in deep space. Doing so is rather rare though. Because the building process is so complex, the ship uses advanced AI to coordinate its production efforts, like the world devastators before them.
Anti-Concussion Field Generators: An Anticoncussion field was a highly advanced type of force field used at the Stars' End prison facility. To create the field, numerous anticoncussion projectors honeycombed the interior of the vehicle or building it was designed to protect. When activated, the field dramatically improved the integrity of floors, walls, ceilings and other internal surfaces. The projector's umbrella-shaped magnetic fields created a single cohesive anticoncussion field that absorbed and dispersed kinetic energy and was powerful enough to render blasts, collisions, and other impacts inert. The system used at Stars' End consumed as much energy as did a Star Destroyer's ion engines (Wookiepedia). Like other Unity ship designs, either the engines or all weapon systems have to go offline to provide power for the Field Generator to be on.
Comments
#15 3:48am 12/02/09
[QUOTE] hesitant to like the whole shipyards in warships thing. Like if you get into a battle, are you going to be spawning out fighters?[/QUOTE]
If by spawning out fighters, you mean producing them and immediately launching them, no. Will it launch its standard starfighter complement? Yes. The factory has no combat or tactical role whatsoever. It does nothing in a battle. It's more akin to the Battlestar Pegasus' Viper Production facilities, save that it can also build some larger ship as well.
[QUOTE]Also, I'm hesitant to like this whole missile idea thing (seems overblown)...That being said, those complaints are mostly around fairness and stuff. [/QUOTE]
That's great, in all seriousness. That's why I asked people from the start what they thought of it. To me, it seems like its on the borderline right now, almost akin to Telan's Gravitational devices on the Conqueror-class, perhaps Ahnk's cannons which blow apart an ISD in one shot.
So I have an idea, would people be oppposed to if it did no damage at all to other ships, but just altered/messed with their courses?
EDIT: You know what, let's just scratch the Gravity Implosion Missiles. I'll replace them with some more conventional warheads. The GIMs would have been nice for the Reavers, but there are plenty of other things to do too.
#14 11:41pm 11/02/09
I wish I had a computer that could support Red Alert 3.
Also, I'm hesitant to like this whole missile idea thing (seems overblown) + hesitant to like the whole shipyards in warships thing. Like if you get into a battle, are you going to be spawning out fighters?
That being said, those complaints are mostly around fairness and stuff. As a storyline tool against the Reavers, I love it. Hell, I'd be cool if you got a super one of these that made 2 reaver super star destroyers crash into each other or something, I'm just not great with the applications to its use with other factions.
#13 1:34am 11/02/09
[QUOTE]That statement I tend to disagree with. Just because something is a gravitic anomaly does not mean it inherently is gravity. The Yevethan Gravity Bombs uses an explosive force to project this wave that interrupts their local gravity fields... it does not "attract" them towards this field. [/QUOTE]
This is true, that all gravitic anomalies do not inherently mean gravity. But in the case of the GIM, that is the intent of the anomaly it produces. The comparison with the Yevethan Gravity Bomb isn't perfect, I'd admit. There are other devices which modify gravitational fields though, like the [URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gravitational_field_disrupto]Gravitational Field Disruptor[/URL] or the [URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gravatic_amplitude_modulator]Gravatic Amplitude Modulator[/URL](this likely being something which could be like what the GIM uses). I would rather suggest that the GIM work like an Implosion Drive:
[QUOTE]a very powerful sublight drive system, the implosion drive employs a high-pressure implosion reactor that emits an intense gravitic field that dimples the space-time continuum of realspace, causing the vessel to move. These engines are extremely high-maintenance drives, which is one reason that implosion drives are uncommon, except in the Outer Rim Territories. [/QUOTE] ~CUSWE
I think it's fairly safe to save based on these technologies that gravity can be fairly easily manipulated in star wars (I mean, Leia altered a person's weight so that they fell to the core of planet). I
Alternatively, I could just say that it's a gravitational quagmire. :P
But seriously, I'm a bit more interested in balancing it out more than anything else.
[QUOTE]I don't feel a sup'd up gravity generator is going to produce a black hole. If the gravity generator were the size of an Interdictor's there is a danger. But on a missile?
But that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'd hope not. Creating black holes isn't the intent, at the very least.
[QUOTE]I am not saying you do not have molecular furnaces. I am saying you do not have the world/ship destroying implements that were used by World Devestators to feed their furnaces. Destroying worlds and gobbling up starships to feed their lathes was not the Confederation's intent (I am assuming) when they figured to build this ship. Given the difference in intent (which also is highlighted by your giving it a battleship function), it is safe to assume your ship would not be as efficient in [I]obtaining[/I] raw materials from whatever/whereever since your people actually do give a crap. I am not talking about the processing of raw materials in your furnaces (that is probably just as efficient), I am talking about the acquisition of these materials.[/QUOTE]
Ah, then there is no argument here. I've said as much in the R&D document, saying that by itself, a Summit is not an efficient resource gatherer by itself. That's what Montcalms are for.
EDIT: For Park's post...
I'm not inclined to comment on much else, since they don't apply to the topic at hand. Let it suffice to say that I mostly disagree.
[QUOTE]The Gravity Imploder missiles sould a lot like the Russian Vaccuum Imploder from Red Alert 3, a missile that causes a sudden violent increase in gravity, or loss thereof, creating a black hole effect. The effect in the game does not suck anything into non-existance, but it does draw in the smaller stuff and damage the integrity of the larger stuff. The only time stuff gets destroyed are the smaller objects colliding into one another when they are drawn into the center.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I'm trying to duplicate, sort of.
#12 1:19am 11/02/09
[quote]Maybe that is why the Confederation is starving, Beff.... bullets instead of bread.[/quote]
Lately I've been viewing the Confederation as a Star Wars equivalent of the Russian Federation - A military minded state where the people suffer hardships compared to the citizens of other factions, but don't realize it because they are effectivley lied to and taught the other people's good lives are lies themselves.
As for the examples of the Gravity Bomb and Pulse-Mass mines, well in the Yevetha case the gravity bombs added extra offensive punch, but in exchange the vessels that had them had weaker shields than typical Imperial warships, and in the Hapan's case, the pulse-mass mines help made up for the modern turbolaser technology they lacked. It also helped make up for the lack of numbers in their fleet. In the novels, the Hapan home fleet consisted of 1 battle dragon and 2 nova battlecruisers donated from every one of the sixty three worlds within the cluster (63 and 126 total, plus starfighter and troop complements), and only the wealthiest of the worlds (like five total) could afford additional combat vessels. But enough sidetracking on that area.
The Gravity Imploder missiles sould a lot like the Russian Vaccuum Imploder from Red Alert 3, a missile that causes a sudden violent increase in gravity, or loss thereof, creating a black hole effect. The effect in the game does not suck anything into non-existance, but it does draw in the smaller stuff and damage the integrity of the larger stuff. The only time stuff gets destroyed are the smaller objects colliding into one another when they are drawn into the center.
#11 12:57am 11/02/09
[QUOTE]Gravity is an attractive force; if it wasn't, people wouldn't be able to walk; instead, they'd probably be floating out to space.
[B]So yes, a sudden, large gravity anomaly that appears will draw stuff to it.[/B]
Simply because the missile is destroyed doesn't mean that the force of gravity instantly leaves (though the destruction of the generator certainly lessens its duration). Simple case and point, Yevethan Gravity Bombs. That also describes how smaller things would be destroyed in the field. That being said, perhaps a minute would be a bit long. I'm going to change that to thirty seconds.[/QUOTE]
That statement I tend to disagree with. Just because something is a gravitic anomaly does not mean it inherently is gravity. The Yevethan Gravity Bombs uses an explosive force to project this wave that interrupts their local gravity fields... it does not "attract" them towards this field.
I don't feel a sup'd up gravity generator is going to produce a black hole. If the gravity generator were the size of an Interdictor's there is a danger. But on a missile?
But that's just my opinion.
I am not saying there are not ways of dealing with the missile. But I do think you've opened a window here...
*
I am not saying you do not have molecular furnaces. I am saying you do not have the world/ship destroying implements that were used by World Devestators to feed their furnaces. Destroying worlds and gobbling up starships to feed their lathes was not the Confederation's intent (I am assuming) when they figured to build this ship. Given the difference in intent (which also is highlighted by your giving it a battleship function), it is safe to assume your ship would not be as efficient in [I]obtaining[/I] raw materials from whatever/whereever since your people actually do give a crap. I am not talking about the processing of raw materials in your furnaces (that is probably just as efficient), I am talking about the acquisition of these materials.
#10 11:04pm 10/02/09
Well, Om basically answered Beff's thoughts...so...
[QUOTE]The missile does not detonate. It implodes, which, according to the R&D creates this intense field of gravity.
That draws stuff to it?
How does that cause things to blow up or instantly be destroyed (since there is no shockwave or anything) unless they are caused to run into each other by this field that pulls them to it (like a reverse tractor beam)?
However, I would surmise that the effects do not last the stated one minute because the minute the missile implodes, the gravity generator is destroyed and no longer generating gravity (as what happens when Interdictors are destroyed... the interdiction field collapses and ships can escape).[/QUOTE]
Gravity is an attractive force; if it wasn't, people wouldn't be able to walk; instead, they'd probably be floating out to space.
So yes, a sudden, large gravity anomaly that appears will draw stuff to it.
Simply because the missile is destroyed doesn't mean that the force of gravity instantly leaves (though the destruction of the generator certainly lessens its duration). Simple case and point, [URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_bomb]Yevethan Gravity Bombs[/URL]. That also describes how smaller things would be destroyed in the field. That being said, perhaps a minute would be a bit long. I'm going to change that to thirty seconds.
[QUOTE][I]They are weapons to be rarely used because of their cost, not so much because of the technology involved, but because of the drastic effects they can have. [/I]
That's like saying the Hummer is cost efficient because you will drive it less.
If you are talking black holes then, yes, it would be expensive and probably very damaging on a cosmic scale. If your battleship exploded it would probably make the entire sector or quadrant of space unliveable since it would be full of unfired missiles for 40 launchers especially since you wouldn't fire them that much...[/QUOTE]
I don't quite understand your comparison to a Hummer.
Bad Battlestar Galactica reference: using a Gravity Implusion Missile is like Galactica using a nuke warhead. Sure, it can do that, but do they ever want to really use one?
There are some pretty big drawbacks to the weapon that no-one seems to mentioned yet, and that's that it's an area of effect weapon. Given that most battles end up with ships being intertangled and battlelines quickly merged within the first or second post (for example, H&G). I'm going to assume that I don't want to damage or screw the maneuvers up of my own ships. So, it's unlikely that it's going to be used except in the first post, or unless there is a sudden distance created between the two fleets caused by a retreat or gain of space superiority by another.
Second, this means that a large, transport-sized missile has to cross a somewhat long distance of unoccupied space. Did it ever occur to anyone to try and intercept it? At that size, lighter turbolasers aren't going to have much of a problem hitting it, and neither should starfighters. There's a reason there are forty missile launchers, and it's because I'm assuming that some of the missiles are going to intercepted because of their size.
[QUOTE]The gravity generating missiles simply casts a shadow over the fact that is this a well armed free-flying shipyard. It cannot be called a World Devestator because it has none of the world/ship destroying implements used to atomize them into usable resources enmass. This ship has to have crap brought into it's 900 meter bay/factory receiving area, etc... before it can begin to produce stuff. So, unless it leaves port fully stocked with everything it needs to build whatever it builds, it's going to be a logistical nightmare (the farther away from home base it goes) requiring resupply trains to keep up with it's shipyard operation productions (methinks).[/QUOTE]
Disagree. [URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Molecular_furnace]Molecular furnaces[/URL] do just that, and they're mentioned within the R&D doc. Whatever is going to be consumed just needs to be moved into position via tractor beam projectors. For obvious reasons, it wouldn't be a bright idea to that in the middle of combat, because moving something in for processing would require the shields being lowered. So no, I'm not going to suck some warship or world in the middle of combat to churn out 8 million star destroyers. What might happen is that in the aftermath of a battle, the Summit might reprocess some debris to replace starfighter losses or make new warheads. Or it'll process asteroids in peacetime to slowly make a larger starship. Building larger ships with a Summit isn't as efficient time-wise as using a normal shipyard or whatever production facility. I'm also going to point out that it technically doesn't even need World Devastator technology to do this, as the Ssi-Ruuvi were capable of doing precisely the same thing with their [URL=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lwhekk-class_manufacturing_ship]Factory Ship[/URL] .
[QUOTE]But what stuff can it build?
Any and every ship in the Confederation Navy? I think not.
Since it's a free-flying shipyard, my question is: How long does it take to build ships of whatever sizes you are contemplating. Does your crew compliment of nearly 7000 or your 20,000+ troopers also account for the fighter crews and ship crews that will man the vessels your battleship/shipyard produces?[/QUOTE]
It clearly can't provide the crews or all of the necessary materials for a ship like food or fuel. So it doesn't provide that. It's not a perfect system. As to the question of if it can build every ship in the Confederation Navy? I would say, theoritically, yes, based on what the world devastators can do. Realistically, not really. There would be a lot of retooling to do if it constantly made different designs of ships.
[QUOTE][I]...except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles. [/I]
Let me guess, because they are smaller than the eye can see, they're cheap right?
Since you can't see them, how do you know they are even loaded into the reloader and how will you ever know if you knock down a stack of subatomic particle ammunition if the ship is under fire and shudders?[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about them being cheaper that I can recall. I also mentioned the use of cartridges. Basically, the ammunition for such a weapon is a canister of plasma in which the particles are suspended. When the weapon is fired, the plasma with the particles suspended in it is launched into space.
#9 10:17pm 10/02/09
[quote]Obviously, I'm not going to blindly accept what everyone says, like that the Gravity Implosion Missiles should only effect fruit flies, for instance.[/quote]
If only fruit flies could fly in space...
Please be aware that the opposite is also true.
Players are not going to blindly accept what your R&D claims:
[quote]
•All fighters, missiles, other kinetic munitions, and mines are destroyed or heavily-moderately damaged in the area of effect in scale to their size and distance from the detonation.
•Ships ranging from Transports (20 meters) to Corvettes (roughly 150 meters) suffer from moderate to light structural damage and are forced into a radial turn around the detonation during that minute (essentially an orbit around the detonation).
•Frigate to Cruiser-class vessels (150-800 meters) suffer light structural damage and are somewhat knocked off course in the direction of the warhead’s detonation.
•Ships over 800 meters long suffer no damage and are sometimes somewhat knocked off course in the direction of the warhead’s detonation
[/quote]
Beff, he's not creating a black hole just because he calls it a singularity. See that little trap of words. You were ready to give him small black holes when all he said in his R&D is that it's just a gravity generator that can fit into a missle as long as a shuttle (which, of course, depends on the shuttle you use as your baseline).
The missile does not detonate. It implodes, which, according to the R&D creates this intense field of gravity.
That draws stuff to it?
How does that cause things to blow up or instantly be destroyed (since there is no shockwave or anything) unless they are caused to run into each other by this field that pulls them to it (like a reverse tractor beam)?
However, I would surmise that the effects do not last the stated one minute because the minute the missile implodes, the gravity generator is destroyed and no longer generating gravity (as what happens when Interdictors are destroyed... the interdiction field collapses and ships can escape).
Unless, of course, you ARE talking about creating black holes and ripping up the fabric of space, then you are probably not talking about cheap, sup'd up gravity generators that are as common as bipedal aliens and Zell's use of curse words.
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[quote]They are weapons to be rarely used because of their cost, not so much because of the technology involved, but because of the drastic effects they can have.[/quote]
That's like saying the Hummer is cost efficient because you will drive it less.
*
If you are talking black holes then, yes, it would be expensive and probably very damaging on a cosmic scale. If your battleship exploded it would probably make the entire sector or quadrant of space unliveable since it would be full of unfired missiles for 40 launchers especially since you wouldn't fire them that much...
But whatever.
People are not prohibited from designing controversial systems. They just have the responsibility to ensure their use does not become controversial in roleplay.
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The gravity generating missiles simply casts a shadow over the fact that is this a well armed free-flying shipyard. It cannot be called a World Devestator because it has none of the world/ship destroying implements used to atomize them into usable resources enmass. This ship has to have crap brought into it's 900 meter bay/factory receiving area, etc... before it can begin to produce stuff. So, unless it leaves port fully stocked with everything it needs to build whatever it builds, it's going to be a logistical nightmare (the farther away from home base it goes) requiring resupply trains to keep up with it's shipyard operation productions (methinks).
But what stuff can it build?
Any and every ship in the Confederation Navy? I think not.
Since it's a free-flying shipyard, my question is: How long does it take to build ships of whatever sizes you are contemplating. Does your crew compliment of nearly 7000 or your 20,000+ troopers also account for the fighter crews and ship crews that will man the vessels your battleship/shipyard produces?
Seems like your ship should be bigger.
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[quote]...except they fire a magnetically contained ball of subatomic particles.[/quote]
Let me guess, because they are smaller than the eye can see, they're cheap right?
Since you can't see them, how do you know they are even loaded into the reloader and how will you ever know if you knock down a stack of subatomic particle ammunition if the ship is under fire and shudders?
#8 8:57pm 10/02/09
So if you're creating a gravitic anomally, aka - black hole, how do you propose to collapse said singularity? It's neat that you've got the idea to create a black hole missile, but once created...
You see where I'm going?
More over, if they are self sustaining then what's to keep someone with this sort of technology from turning an enemy system inside out? I mean, if you detonated this thing in close proximity (say 10 light minutes) to an energy source (say, a star) wouldn't it.... you know... eat everything?
I'm no science buff, so I'm not going to try and argue cosmology, but yeah... just a thought.
#7 8:47pm 10/02/09
[QUOTE]I still think contend that the aforementioned gravitational bomb thingies would be expensive, considerably. Not for any reason I care to detail other then 1.) Fairness (see: I have six billion Star Destroyers) and 2.) Realism (see: Because it's Fiction, money grows on trees and I'm a goggleplex)[/QUOTE]
From the R&D:
[QUOTE]Because of their size and cost, these missiles are fired slowly (slow-refire rate) if at all[/QUOTE]
I agree, sort of. They are weapons to be rarely used because of their cost, not so much because of the technology involved, but because of the drastic effects they can have.
#6 8:30pm 10/02/09
Noted.
I still think contend that the aforementioned gravitational bomb thingies would be expensive, considerably. Not for any reason I care to detail other then 1.) Fairness (see: I have six billion Star Destroyers) and 2.) Realism (see: Because it's Fiction, money grows on trees and I'm a goggleplex)
#5 7:24pm 10/02/09
[QUOTE]Those gravity thingies sound like they would be prohibitively expensive...[/QUOTE]
I was expecting these to be discussed...and I'm inclined to disagree. Consider that the Hapans have Pulse-mass Mines, which are essentially the same thing except they effect gravity in hyperspace. These effect gravity in realspace, which in turn is based in very real, and old technology, which is to say, basic artificial gravity. Given that most ships have artificial gravity (generators), even on the most crappy of ships, the basic technology is likely not that expensive. Having a modified version that increases power at the cost of duration is probably more expensive, but probably not more so than a thermo-nuclear warhead (ie, proton torpedoes).
[QUOTE]Second, the R&D is your concept therefore the effect is also yours to explain and/or detail in, as you well know, the Battlegrounds thread which is to accompany the R&D before it can be put in to use. This, as with Kach's last thread, invites a futile debate where-in persons involved will argue from their own perspective, ie; the Empire, fearing its use against them, will make 'suggestions' which will minimalize the effect while your allies will likely argue for overblown results.[/QUOTE]
Yes and no. There's always going to be some of that regardless if such an invitation has been made or not. But there are parties which comment on such R&Ds that realistically are never going to have to deal with it, such as you in this thread making comments about the expensiveness of the Gravity Implosion Missile. Obviously, I'm not going to blindly accept what everyone says, like that the Gravity Implosion Missiles should only effect fruit flies, for instance. Rather, what that was was more of an invitation to 3rd Parties like yourself to bring up possible problems with it.
Because this is a rather new, and perhaps even controversial, system.
People should be able to voice their opinions on such things openly. This is not to say that the author of the R&D is subject to every whim of a person or the arguments of others, but rather that they should be aware of them, and if they feel the need so because they didn't think about something (like your cost argument) that they might include it within the R&D.
#4 6:26pm 10/02/09
That's what happens when you live in a military state.
Corise:
[QUOTE]I’m not quite sure about the Gravitic Implosion Missile’s effects; only about the concept itself. If people have ideas or comments on if it’s too weak or strong, whatever, and I’d like to hear them in the thread or via PM, and I’ll take them into consideration. This is actually a system designed more or less to deal with some Reavers rather than to deal with anyone else, and it’ll probably be played like that most of the time.[/QUOTE]
First, if it is as you say "designed more or less to deal with some Reavers rather than to deal with anyone else" you don't actually need an R&D given that the Reavers are a Non-Player Character faction (ie; the equivalent of a 'story board' ship). Given the effort you've put in, however... I am of the opinion that you do in fact intend to use these against Player factions which is fine, but don't dress it up as something it's not.
Second, the R&D is your concept therefore the effect is also yours to explain and/or detail in, as you well know, the Battlegrounds thread which is to accompany the R&D before it can be put in to use. This, as with Kach's last thread, invites a futile debate where-in persons involved will argue from their own perspective, ie; the Empire, fearing its use against them, will make 'suggestions' which will minimalize the effect while your allies will likely argue for overblown results.
#3 5:58pm 10/02/09
Maybe that is why the Confederation is starving, Beff.... bullets instead of bread.
;)
#2 4:50pm 10/02/09
Those gravity thingies sound like they would be prohibitively expensive...
#1 5:55am 10/02/09
Things to know about the design:
1) I’m not quite sure about the Gravitic Implosion Missile’s effects; only about the concept itself. If people have ideas or comments on if it’s too weak or strong, whatever, and I’d like to hear them in the thread or via PM, and I’ll take them into consideration. This is actually a system designed more or less to deal with some Reavers rather than to deal with anyone else, and it’ll probably be played like that most of the time.
2) These aren’t going to spammed everywhere, with every planet or two having one. The number of them will eventually be less than the digits on my hands. For now, there’s going to be one, the [I]Fidelitas[/I], which will be substantially involved in the Catacylsm thread with the Reavers. It will likely remain that way for some time. And by some time, I mean several months at the very least.
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