Last of my OOC responses to this. I'll explain more after this.
I refer you once again to Stover's writing in Shatterpoint, where the ultrachrome was used on all smaller ships (not just Jedi craft) and, according to him, was only useful for low-fire-rate weapons and the lower-powered laser cannons of the day. Not heavy turbolasers.
I don't recall that from the books, nor do any other sources mention that at all either, which leads me to believe that that is pure conjecture.
How about the fact that you only posted minimal damage to your ships, even though the weapons fire should have decimated the foreward sections, and Drayson's weapons just happened not to destroy your weapons? Do the words "fair play" mean anything anymore?
And Drayson has posted no damage to ships in the post previous to that one.
So then what is it? Not ultrachrome, but resistant to heat...is it also resistant to penetration? And if it's so good, why isn't on the outer layers as well? Or is this another Corise dodge?
Quadranium Carbide, a hard refractory ceramic. The reason it's not on the outer layer is because of the role it plays in the ERA.
And why not? Considering that would be standard for weapons. Or do your weapons simply pass through your armor without harming it?
I meant that there wasn't a cluster of emitters llocated everywhere ike a shields for example. It does have a barrel and what not.
1) This isn't an R&D thread, so I don't think Drayson has to provide the info here unless asked about in a way in which he uses such technology in the thread.
If this isn't a R&D thread, why are we for the most part discussing technology?
2) Take a look at the descriptions of stealth stuff in the Mk. II TIE Phantom. That's what Drayson is talking about, I think. BS it if you want, but make it reasonable and believable.
The Tie Phantom Mk II is less descriptive and more stealthy the even the S9 is. How is that a point against my R&Ds?
I don't think that's quite correct, but I'm not an expert on space bombs. However, to have enough explosive power, they would have to be quite a bit larger than torpedoes. Mass and velocity are the two key components to force, and unless you're using baridium (which I don't believe you are), they have to be packed with explosives to create the kind of power you're talking about. And if you're so sure that game stuff isn't canon, try playing X-wing Alliance and launching space bombs at canon ISDs. Even a hundred just manage to knock out the shields.
You're correct. I meant in relative size to capital weapons. A space bomb is about the size of 3-4 Proton Torpedoes. And the fact that it only takes a hundred just to knock out the shields actually furthers my point. If that is the case, there probably shouldn't be anything left of a ship twice as small.
Number one, though I haven't read the R&D, is to ask how you got around the fact that they'll still emit heat signatures. Or do they have no propulsion? Are they visible? If not, why not? What kind of sensor negators or cloaking devices do they have? And wouldn't that add to their size? Meaning that they'd be significantly larger than a normal space bomb, not to mention a torpedo?
I have dealt with heat signatures in a similar manner as the USAF did with the Nighthawk. The heat is channeled out as it is generated through many small, different vents throughout the craft. As such, heat is instanteously dissipated before it can be detected. I should also note that the heat emission of any ship of starfighter size is very small and very hard to detect to begin with, as noted within the SSDS system.
This doesn't negate the fact that it still costs a lot of money to produce, money which Kashan, being a relatively new faction IC, should not have. Even the Empire is only building a relatively few number of Mk. II Phantoms, which are about equivalent in cost to your A3s, and, I'm sorry to say, the Empire probably has quite a bit more money than Kashan, considering they own over 100 worlds.
Money isn't everything. And OOC, Kashan is much older and has a significantly developed economy focused on the military. This isn't something that's unique to me. Look at Hitler's Solidarity thread. Is it any more reasonable to have a neutral planet equipped with around 40 VSDs?
Still does not negate the fact that Kashan has only been around IC for a few months and has in that time upgraded every ship in its fleet, and most of them multiple times. Considering all the upgrading, which takes time, it's surprising that more than three quarters of your fleet isn't in dry dock constantly.
See the above. And yes, a fair amount of the fleet is in drydock most of the time recieving those upgrades. I realize it's not an automatic process.
Actually, this is not true. With a speed rating higher than the interceptor, shields nearly impervious to starfighter weapons, and the stealth abilities (which, according to you, make them invisible), there has to be some compensation other than maneuverability. Generally larger, heavier ships are slower. It's just the way of things. Mass times force and all that.
Compare the A3 to the Missile Boat. It has the same shields, the same speed too. There is a compensation with maneuverability and acceleration, as it is, I don't see any compensation at all with your Tie Phantom II. And simply because it's larger doesn't make it slower, the C-wing is a good example of that, but it does affect the acceleration.
All that said, I think Drayson was commenting on your R&Ds overall. For example, your battle droid. I was reading over your R&D for that (considering my squadrons are on the ground most of the time), and I couldn't think of a single way to kill them. I mean, it takes several E-webs with constant fire to bring them down? And they're impervious to ion weapons? Your ships are triple-shielded, double/triple-armored with impenitrable superconducting, heat-resistant, energy-resistant armor? Any weaknesses at all? I can't find any.
THe Battle droid is basically equivalent to an upgraded AT-PT in performance and size. Is there anything wrong with that? Yes, it can be destroyed by air strikes or heavy armor or artillery. But yeah, it's pretty hard to take down with simply infantry, and that's the point of the R&D.
1) In order to reprogram a course once in hyperspace, yes, a ship has to revert. However, once programmed, a course may include turns that will be effected while in hyperspace. Such is the case here.
I don't think it's possible to make a midturn of that magnitude in hyperspace, at least according to Omnae.
2) Multi-XMAP
Ah I stand corrected then. Didn't see that last part on the Multi-XMAP
3) Your ships are uber; see above.
4) Ultrachrome is obsolete. See above.
See above. Also note that KDI vessels are no more stronger than other high tech ships. Look at the Dragonclaw, which is the same size of the Seraph, yet it carries more weapons, is faster, and its armor has similar properties and abilities to that of the Seraph's. Can you say that the Seraph is any more uber than the Dragonclaw?
5) My ship's damage is underestimated. This is because a) your attack was not as successful as you believe, and b) in direct response to the underestimation of your own damages. See below.
Explain why my attack was not successful as I believe, and my own damages are based on advanced armor that you still haven't disproved.
6) You do not dispute that your ships were hit. You simply claim that the shots mysteriously and conviently did not hit anything important.
Which means nothing because depending on where the shot is coming from and where it hits the nose, the weapons wouldn't be affected at all. YOu did not say that it was a direct front-to-front thing. I assumed it wouldn't be because the Juaires were pointed at your fleeing ships, which were on a different trajectory than your own. The placement of vessels in relation to each other is also another matter. You did not specify.
Not only does the front end appear unarmoured, but there are two clear structures tucked away that could only be weapons. And they appear very vulnerable to a direct hit on the front end, which is precisely what your ships experianced.
See above.
You seriously underestimate the abilities of the CPEC, and overestimate the abilities of your own ship. The CPEC is twice the size of your ship and sports guns designed to kill capital ships. And it has caused relatively minor damage to your ship - yes, two weapons are dead, but that is a function of your design as much as anything else.
You said it was equal to two heavy turbolasers. Two heavy turbolasers aren't going to bring down a ship's shields or deal with superconducting plating. Speaking of which, I don't recall BDE ships suffering from that weakness despite using superconducting plating, which is more or less TRF proof that turbolasers do not generate enough heat to do that, especially since turbolasers don't shoot heat, but pure energy, which does not contain heat as the primary means of offense.
7) Game references are by and large ignored as canon on TRF. While understandable that you might not know that, it does not make it any less true.
I have yet to see anyone tell me that, and based on the actions and reports on the past, such as in the Liberator size case, I'm not inclined to believe you without proof of this matter.
8) But since they can't be targetted, it doesn't really matter if they can't manouver. The thing is, they're fast (quicker than an Interceptor), very well armed, shielded, and invisible. Giving up some manouverability for all that hardly seems a fair compromise. Not to mention that they are faster than an Interceptor despite being twice the size and carrying a heavy payload. Uber.
It's pretty much a missile boat. See the comments directed back at Vos for more info.
10) Also my mistake, to some degree. You misspelled the word under your "weapons" heading, and in this thread, so when I did a keyword search and a Google search with that word, nothing came up. That said, the CUSWE description says very little, and I question the weapons capabilities at this rather extreme range.
Whoops, I'll admit the mispelling. But I think in terms of description, I think most of your weapons are actually described less than my own.
11) The Missile Boat is also, iirc, a WEG invention, and severely overloaded. Your ship, you fail to mention, is also invisible. It is also bigger, and bigger generally means slower. So it is bigger and heavier, yet just as fast. Still carries a significant payload, and is invisible. Again, uber.
I could have swore it came a video game. My ship is also not invisible. It is possible to see if with the naked eye, but that's rather hard to do. See above.
12) It would also be inpractical to deploy the TIE Defender as a mainline fighter. The Darksaber and A3 would be substantially more expensive (even more so given the relative economy of scale between the Empire and the GC, and Imperial production advantadges).
THe Darksaber?
I have to agree. Fielding superweapons as starfighters is rather expensive. I don't see any production advantages that the Empire has over the Coalition either. As it is, KDI has a fair amount of automated factories. It's important to note that A3s aren't produced as fast or in the same numbers as most starfighters. There aren't as many made in a run and they are made at a slower rate. But they have a much higher survivalability rate due to their stealth capabilities, which leads them to last longer than their counterparts, and thus eventually accumulate.
The point about expense goes beyond the fighter, though: Kashan is managing to find both time and money to produce new warships, redesign and refit old warships, and produce extremely expensive starfighters on a very significant scale. All the while expanding at a very rapid pace. All of which costs money.
Kashan had thirty years of other time to do the production and make the facilities and harvest the resources to make them. Never forget that.
13) None of which address my point. Just because it may have basis in canon, does not make it fair. Your ships, as it stand, cannot be targetted. They cannot be hit with a concentrated missile attack. They are highly resilient to turbolaser fire. Meanwhile, your guns go right through shields, kill crewmembers right through shields, and on and on. All of which, even if rooted in canon, goes against the nature of the game.
Are my ships any more unfair than BDE's? My starfighters can't targetted directly, no, but there are indirect ways of targetting of them, and they've been done before. I suggest that. Yeah, my ships are resilient to turbolaser fire, but so are BDE's, SE's, and TNO's own Raptor Cruiser. It's hardly a feature unique to KDI vessels. Which guns are those? The Rail guns, which are used by nearly every faction in at least one design, all do that, something that is not unique. The Gravity Disruptor is a weapon unique to KDI I admit, but TNO has the gravity bomb, which does the exact same thing but in a bomb form and with a heavier and higher damage ratings.
Let me give you an example: Abolisher cruisers. While deeply rooted in canon and entirely feasible, their use was outlawed at TRF. Why? Because it went against the spirit of the game. They were far too powerful and infalliable for their size.
Abolisher cruisers and pulse-mass weapons have been allowed, disallowed, reallowed, etc. My ships follow TRF R&D protocol. They are no more powerful than canon ships but do have some special abilities. Is there anything wrong with that?
Kas' Hypervelocity Gun also, unlike your ships, had stated drawbacks that prevented it from being abused. Ulike your R&Ds, which simply pack tech onto a ship and claim to be better than everyone.
That would be incorrect. I do explicitly state drawbacks or tradeoffs in all my weapons. For example, the railgun's rate of fire is lower by several times over compared to a turbolaser. As well, here is an example of another gun that simply isn't affected by enemy shielding: the Cree'ar plasma disruptor. Note that I don't see any drawbacks to it either.
Often simply called Warship, the Ja'Mha Rerodon Light Cruiser is the most conventional of all the Dominion ships and one of the most heavily armed. The Plasma disruptors can disable or even destroy enemy vessels with ease, their superhot fluidic discharge typically able to bypass energy based shields and burn and corrode typical metal hulls and open the vessels to space.
14) Yet you've built many new ships (as many as 10 Pegasus', for example), while also refitting older Seraph I's, starfighters, and designing new craft.
See above. Also note that the Coalition has paid for and brought more orbital shipyards to Kashan.
15) You have not admitted damage to your gunships. You've claimed that they somehow suffered "minor" hull breaches to "non-vital" systems, in the face of what I've said and even your own designs. You've basically appealed to the uberness of your tech. Whereas, while I admit freely that the damage to the Heavy Cruisers as it stands is underestimated, it is based on a written chain of events that led to that end.
See above.
The EMPIRE fighters are not invisible - the system makes them more difficult to target, but by no means impossible. Yours claims to make them impossible to target. And they do this without tradeoffs - they are similarly speedy, shielded, and armed, to similar fighters.
Actually, no. They are slower. Look at the S9 Mk I thread. You'll notice that it is incredibly well-armored(because of the nature of the stealth armor), but also rather slow. The Mk II traded the thickness of the armor and reduced the shielding for equal improvements in speed and maneuverability. THere are always tradeoffs in those things. I make sure of it.
As for your jamming, yes, and I mentioned that the fleet is not communicating, but that they have orders and are following them.
Right, and that's fine. But it by no means allows your starfighters to recieve targetting info from a capital ship. Albeit I doubt its actual effectiveness in detecting my ships(simply because how it works is rather vague), I have no problem if your cruisers equipped with the system go and enage my starfighters.
This is probably my most important point here: TRF is here for people to make interesting stories, to develop characters, to develop plots. I admit that I like R&Ds and how they can influence a chain of events. THey can be a great enhancement to a story, like the Centerpoint and HIMS were in the Corellian Trilogy. Here, BDE and the Cree'ar Dominion have done it rather successfully as well. And I was attempting to do something similar to BDE but instead of religion, have a strong miliateristic theme like Sparta. And so far, the idea has worked with other Rpers, even when they are going against me, such as Telan.
However, I'm finding with you that then rather letting technology enhance the RPing experience, you're coming up with minor, conjectural ideas that with much, if any actual hard proof. I find that the detail I put into my R&Ds to enhance the detail of the world I'm trying to create is being used to rip it apart by pure and possible conjectures.
My goal has never been to create uber R&Ds with which to crush all opposition. If it has been, why wouldn't I have gone off and started invading planets controlled by hostile groups, such as BDE, the Cree'ar, or the sole Union planet that the Coalition knows exists? I have not sought hostile OOC conflicts, indeed, Telan, Beff, and Kraken should know that if there is going to be a fleeting thread involving the Confederation and another force, I like to plan out the battle's procedure OOC with the said person in a manner which both parties agree to.
I have no intent of going on for any more pages of OOC bickering that accomplishes nothing when I could be spending the same time developing my characters or cultures or the grand scheme of cultural unity and assimulation throughout the Confederation. As such, because there is nothing now to keep my fleet from leaving the engagement with Trinity's fleet, my fleet will exit the engagement and find something more productive to do.
