Manifest Error - OOC Discussion - Forums (Page 8)

71 6:02pm 11/08/04

Blink If You Can Hear Me

Mines should count.

If you can use it against an asset, it should count the same as any asset. It's why the system was modified, because there were groups at TRF that just built a rediculously large amount of fighters and were untouchable. A group with a mobile mine layer could simply drop a shitload of mines and keep an opponents system locked down because he can have a rediculous amount of mines.

OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.

I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis

Brutus Nogoth

72 6:07pm 11/08/04

Intergalactic "Hide and Seek" Champion

Thats why the 50000 limit per planet prevents such a ridiculous amount of mines from being deployed.

Besides, the way you suggest it, NO ONE will use mines. People still use fighters, because 50K of fighters is quite an investment. 50K of mines is suitable to partially protect 1 planet.

I mean, in almost every thread I have read with mines in them, they have had only a moderate, to negligable effect.

Master Ahnk

73 6:10pm 11/08/04

Blink If You Can Hear Me

No one uses mines anyway, they all just built Gencores.

OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.

I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis

A.J. Michalson

74 6:15pm 11/08/04

The House Detective

If you can use it against an asset, it should count the same as any asset. It's why the system was modified, because there were groups at TRF that just built a rediculously large amount of fighters and were untouchable. A group with a mobile mine layer could simply drop a shitload of mines and keep an opponents system locked down because he can have a rediculous amount of mines.

This was gone over in a previous battle thread. 50,000 mines is nothing when you think of the vastness of space, and the size of a planet. With 50,000 mines you can defend, I dunno, maybe a 20'th of a planet.

So, when you build a mine now, you have a choice. Build 10 dinky pieces of crap that sit and wait for the enemy to get close, have dippy lasers or maybe explode like a firework, and have a slight chance at destroying or damaging a ship, or 4 fighters that have a decent chance at taking down an enemy corvett.

If we charge mines to the meter limit like everything else, no one will use them because it costs an arm and a leg. 50,000 meters for something that can't defend a planet, and is easily circumvented, or 50,000 meters for twenty-some KDY networks, which means any fleet within range = slag.

Astral Astoria Moderator.

Master Ahnk

75 6:17pm 11/08/04

Blink If You Can Hear Me

Look, the bottom line is this. The system was set up this way to make sure that groups would have to make the hard choices. It was rediculous, at TRF. Chadd Fearsons had something like 5 gencores, 100,000 mines, a full fleet with an ESD and full fighter compliment, and a Death Star at Hoth. THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. So the system was overhauled. Now, you have to make choices. Like in Baseball. Go for the homerun and take the lead, or bunt the runner home and tie the game? Do you build an ISD, or stock the ones you have with fighters? The defenses thing is like StarCraft. Do you build the photon cannon or the Dragoon? The missle Turret or the Goliath? Do you build the minefield and the shields to defend your one planet, or a fleet that can be used to defend all planets?

It creates a system of checks and balances. It makes construction planets, home planets, and ALL planets important, because you are not afforded an unlimited defense budget and a mildly capped offense. Everything is considered and must be considered when running a group.

Getting selective with what counts or doesn't count undermines the system, and makes for just what we all want: more math.

OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.

I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis

Brutus Nogoth

76 6:24pm 11/08/04

Intergalactic "Hide and Seek" Champion

Chadd Fearsons had something like 5 gencores, 100,000 mines, a full fleet with an ESD and full fighter compliment, and a Death Star at Hoth. THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

Well, the 100,000 mines won't due to the 50,000 mine limit. And if he wanted to leave the rest of TJE undefended (at least under our current system) then that is his perogative.

I think its safe to say, that if you make mines count toward meters, you have elimnated them from the game. Doing such doesn't force groups to make choices- it reduces choices. It makes rp more simplictic. It limits creativity (think back to my Bothan R&Ds involving mines, which would never have occured.)

This games OOC is designed to reflect Star Wars and storyline realism. Removing mines from the equations does the opposite, it makes planetary defense less like Star Wars canon, which makes it less realistic.

A.J. Michalson

77 6:26pm 11/08/04

The House Detective

I agree that Mines should count, but not like everything else. I think my previous example proves my point, 50k fairly worthless mines, or 23 KDY Advance Networks.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that the mines are incredibly over priced. And this is taking into account that every mine of those 50k are only 1m long, not the 4m allowed by the rule.

200,000 meters of mines, or 200 KDY Advance Networks?

Mines should be counted toward the meter limit, yes, but not in such a ridiculous manner. Mines are supposed to be cheap, as Brutus said.

Astral Astoria Moderator.

Park Kraken

78 6:27pm 11/08/04

Back with a Vengeance

Mines aren't maintained in a sense like other Planetery Defenses and ships are. I mean, unlike ships, and stations, which are constantly being repaired, and kept being upgraded, or maintained, mines are just dropped off, and then left alone.

A.J. Michalson

79 6:28pm 11/08/04

The House Detective

Brutus Nogoth:
Well, the 100,000 mines won't due to the 50,000 mine limit. And if he wanted to leave the rest of TJE undefended (at least under our current system) then that is his perogative.

I would also like to point out that mines, used as a straight up planetary defense, are completely worthless. You can fly around them, unless the owner builds several billion to surround his planet with, but that would hurt him more than it would hurt the attacker.

100k mines would make an effective choke-point defense, but do absolutely dip for wide-spread defense. Easily targetable, easily avoided, worthless.

Astral Astoria Moderator.

Master Ahnk

80 6:28pm 11/08/04

Blink If You Can Hear Me

No, no, no.

In a real world, you need materials and you upkeep to keep a fleet of vessels working. Same with mines.

Then why aren't mines not used in the world?

Echo for Star Wars canon.

If the problem is that the destructive power of mines is too low, then up it. If you think 50,000 a system is too few, then up that. But saying that making mines free is realistic to Star Wars canon is a load of horseshit. I'm not one to push realism if it infringes on the fun of the game, and I never have been, but I am one to push realism when not doing so would unbalance the game.

My opinion stands.

OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.

I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis

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