Right-wing American groups try to ban Palme d'Or winning Fahrenheit 9/11... - Rebel Cafe - Forums (Page 7)

61 4:28am 20/06/04

Blink If You Can Hear Me

Defending Charlton Heston as being old and foolish doesn't change the fact that he is callous and irresponsible, promoting a product that every year kills people in the millions. People can sue tabacco companies for advertising smoking but for some reason the NRA gets government funding. It's because of stupid people like you, Kas.

OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.

I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis

Crimson Inc

62 4:02pm 20/06/04

Staff Member at www.crimsoninc.cjb.net

I am against picketing..

.. I just don't know how to show it.

Theren Gevel

63 5:04pm 20/06/04

friend of the sleeping pill

The point is that Drayson wants to be just like me.

Trinity

64 1:12am 21/06/04

Imperial Observer

Kas, your willingness (and ability!) to overlook facts still astounds me.

This is a good time because Kas is so up-tight you could stick a coal up his ass and in two weeks you would have a diamond.

-Theren Gevel

Kas

65 1:15am 21/06/04

Internaut

Maybe you should present your point then.

Trinity

66 1:21am 21/06/04

Imperial Observer

Isn't the ability to read kind of an... essential skill when participating in an RP gorup, Kas?

This is a good time because Kas is so up-tight you could stick a coal up his ass and in two weeks you would have a diamond.

-Theren Gevel

Lahout

67 1:49am 21/06/04

The Eleventh Seeker

I would say the same to you. Since you are unable to, apparently, I shall recap for you. Your last relevant post was on page 2. My reply to that was as such:

Kas:
Let's cut the fog, ok? Did Moore lie concerning Heston's speech? I say he did, and I present evidence that he did. [url="http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html"]Right here, black and white.[/url]
Do you think Moore lied in BFC?

This argument started about whether or not Moore lied in BFC, not about the tangents we got on for a few posts. I don't have time to respond with thousand word posts multiple times a day, so I cut to the issue. This is the issue, did Moore lie in BFC? Everything else is irrelevant, until that is answered.

You have spent the last two pages posting witty one-liners about how I'm ignoring the point, little guides on how a Republican debates, etc, while you yourself ignore my plainly asked question, and my two requests for you to present a point of your own.

Ball's in your field, and I wish you would do something with it.

Dolash02

68 1:57am 21/06/04

Return of the King of the Cafe!

Well, put simply, he didn't lie. The parts taken "Out of context", like the from my cold dead hands thing, is just a catchphrase. Its' what he says. It is totally irrelevant wether he said it there or not, the point is we see him say it and everyone goes "Oh yeah, Charlton Heston, the gun guy."

Also, did he cut out parts of the speech? So? You can't show the whole Goddamn speech, you know. He showed us the relevant parts, the parts that he wanted to make clear happened.

The only time I would consider someone taking editing too far is if they asked a question and then cut out chunks of the speech and took them out of context as if they were answering the questions. Showing clips of related speeches or parts from different speeches is just fine, not lying. And even if they were from different speeches, so long as everything he says is taken in context, then its' fine for people to do that.

Ex: If I held a meeting and said that I was sad that thing A happened to someone, then had another meeting some other time and said that the person who had thing A happen to them deserved it and got off too easy, and someone showed the two clips simultaneous, it is not lying.

Kas

69 3:42am 21/06/04

Internaut

Dolash, this reminded me of something you said not too long ago.

If everyone saw that film, it would be a better world. And fewer people would like Charlton Heston (The @#%$).

Source: http://therebelfaction.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614

Unfortunatly that thread was derailed, and you were never questioned as to why you came out of that movie and thought of Heston as a bastard. Why did you think that? I'm willing to bet it's this little clip here.

Weeping children outside Columbine, explaining how near they had come to death and how their friends had just been murdered before their eyes;
Cut to Charleton Heston holding a musket over his head and happily proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'" to a cheering NRA crowd.

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore in voiceover intones: "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charleton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association." [But for this break, the viewer would spot that two different speeches are being merged, since Heston has lavender shirt and tie in the above speech, and white shirt and red tie in the one below.]

Heston (supposedly) continues speech...

"Good Morning. Thank you all for coming, and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today." [Footage of protest outside] "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. [picture of Webb, then back to Heston] He sent me this, and said 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I said to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. [cut to crowd cheering, then back to Heston] Don't come here? We're already here."

The viewer sees Heston. The viewer thinks 'That guy', because yes, everyone knows that image. The viewer sees Columbine, and hears Moore say " Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charleton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association." User thinks "Man waving gun, gun ralley. Dead kids ten days earlier. Cold hearted bastard.

When the viewer later hears Heston say "... as American's we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here" they think "cold hearted bastard", but they don't hear what he really said.

NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.
Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.

You came out of the movie thinking of Heston as a cold hearted SOB because Moore edited out parts of Heston's speech that would have made Heston appear human.

You came out thinking that because Moore lied to you.

Trinity

70 3:52am 21/06/04

Imperial Observer

Yes, Kas. Everything Moore said in BFC is one big lie. No one dies in America because of guns, Columbine never happened, and we need to all get on with our lives.

Give me a break.

You know what Kas? No matter how you try to spin it, Heston said those things. In response to a plea by a community in mourning asking him not to come, he said "We're already here."

THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THIS.

He deliberatly set up the speech to attack the Mayor. Notice how he says "I have message here from the Mayor of Denver, Mr. Wellington Web",,, and holds for boos?

You're holding a pro-gun rally in Littleton, Colorado, ten days after a mass-shooting, and you invite people to attack the mayor who's asked (in the spirit of the people of Denver) for you to not come.

He does not say something like "The Mayor asked us not to come here - he asked us not to come here because our community is in mourning."

He said "The Mayor said 'don't come here.'"

No ammount of moron idiot Conservative spin doctoring will change that fact.

This is a good time because Kas is so up-tight you could stick a coal up his ass and in two weeks you would have a diamond.

-Theren Gevel

The Rebel Faction

The Rebel Faction » Forums » General Discussion » Rebel Cafe » Right-wing American groups try to ban Palme d'Or winning Fahrenheit 9/11...