Farenheit 9/11 - Rebel Cafe - Forums (Page 5)

41 2:45am 09/07/04

The Eleventh Seeker

So you disagree with the idea that the entire war was begun in order to secure Iraq's vast oil deposits? Let me ask you this, then: why did America invade a country that posed no immediate threat to them, and lie about their reasons for doing so?

1 - You put words in my mouth.
2 - You falsely assume what I think
3 - You quoted my reason. Read some before you have knee-jerk reactions and bang out a post.

That entire statement is really rather contradictory. You say Moore isn't trustworthy... yet by saying that the facts he presents can be found on Google, you're admitting that he's right...

In ten seconds I can find websites on Google that detail alien abductions. Just because it's on the internet, doesn't mean it's true.

I think I also stated in a separate thread (might even be this one) that if Moore managed to not twist the truth on this movie, then good for him. When I say he's untrustworthy, I speak of his past films and books.

I'm assuming that was you Kas that replied to my post even though I don't recognize the name. To say that the war in Iraq was needed? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Well I'm sure all the parents of the children that died when Baghdad was bombed will agree. Hmm... my 3 year old got killed for no apparent reason but this war was surely needed.
It will make the Middle East a better place? What the fuck are you talking about? A better place for who? For the Iraqis getting killed on a daily basis? For the Americans getting kidnapped and decapitated? Completely stupid, I would have thought you'd place a higher value on human life.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-13-saddam-secrets-usat_x.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1165357/posts
http://www.defendamerica.mil/specials/aug2003/atrocities080603.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101689,00.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/World/saddam_son_030214.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040121-8.html
http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php
http://www.google.com

Iraq was not some sort of lolly-pop land where people lived in peace and profited from the abundant oil. It's no picnic now, granted, but hopefully it will be in the future (provided the reconstruction isn't botched).

As I have already stated, but you all so blithely ignored, the war in Iraq was needed, but it came about in the wrong way. Saying that Saddam should have been left in power is the equivalent to condemning thousands upon thousands of people to death. Say we take him out, and you do the same. However, with the first choice you have the prospect of having Saddam's successor in power afterwards, with the second choice you have the hope of removing the grip Saddam and his ilk had.

Zell

42 3:42am 09/07/04

Fat Rooster

Well then let me ask this because what you're saying is not making sense. The war in Iraq was needed to take Saddam Hussein out of power? I think that's what you're saying. And instead of doing some hit and run Metal Gear Solid type shit they had to go to war to ensure that Saddam's influence didn't remain in Iraq? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I believe you're saying. Get rid of Saddam AND his boys not just him. I believe I summed up what you said.

This being the case what are we still doing there? Secondly what country are we going to war with next? What country are we going to "rescue" next?

And also it's somewhat disturbing that you considering yourself a Christian would condone war on other innocent human beings. Now I'm not saying that you specifically said that America should go in and kill women, children and civillians but that's exactly what's happening. Not to mention the American Soldiers getting killed.

I haven't seen any other Michael Moore films but from the one I did see (this one) I was very impressed. The man appeared to have a deep love for the country and it's people and seemed like he wanted to make this film to open people's eyes to the facts. You called him untrustworthy for his work in other films which as I just said I've never seen. What exactly was "untrustworthy"? What did he lie about? Because in this movie there wasn't much room for debate on whether or not his facts were accurate, most of the scenes were coming directly from the source. So I'm curious to know why you dislike him so much other than perhaps he has a different opinion than you.

Lahout

43 4:32am 09/07/04

The Eleventh Seeker

Well then let me ask this because what you're saying is not making sense. The war in Iraq was needed to take Saddam Hussein out of power? I think that's what you're saying. And instead of doing some hit and run Metal Gear Solid type shit they had to go to war to ensure that Saddam's influence didn't remain in Iraq? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I believe you're saying. Get rid of Saddam AND his boys not just him. I believe I summed up what you said.

MGS is a video game. James Bond doesn't exist. And we don't assassinate leaders of other countries. It's kind of like an unspoken mutual agreement. Sure, we could lay a bullet into the side of Saddam's head, but what happens then when the rest of the world sees that America is willing to cap the enemy leader? Assassination is a dangerous can of worms to open, very dangerous. It basically means that no leader in the rest of the world is safe, and they don't want that. Do a Google, you should be able to find a lot more detailed reasons why.

And also it's somewhat disturbing that you considering yourself a Christian would condone war on other innocent human beings. Now I'm not saying that you specifically said that America should go in and kill women, children and civillians but that's exactly what's happening. Not to mention the American Soldiers getting killed.

What is with people pulling the Christian card like it's some sort of trump? Sheesh, what, am I supposed to be some lame pacifist that allows my family to be murdered, but doesn't lift a finger because that would be violence?

I support the taking out of Saddam. The current post-war action, IMO, needs to end as soon as possible. It's not going to happen quickly though, because of a multitude of issues, many of which I don't fully understand.

I've gone over Moore's lies in BFC several times, there's a thread or two in this forum and in the A&E forum that you can check. There are also a multitude of websites out there, ranging from the radical to the more intelligent which detail Moore's lies and half-truths. If I have time tomorrow I'll dig some up for you.

KKKal Omas

44 6:29am 09/07/04

Jedi Knight

Cal, on the other hand, has likely not even seen the movie in question but still feels free to prejudge it based on his bias against Moore.

Actually, for your information Sam, I went to go see the movie the day it was released. I thought it was filled with lies, lefty propoganda, and just plain stupidity. What do you expect from Michael Moore though?

KKKal Omas

45 6:33am 09/07/04

Jedi Knight

Cal is a religion conservative zealot who believes everything the Right Wing tells him to believe, including the fact that Michael Moore is as Unamerican as Stroganoff because he doesn't bow down to the almighty Right.

Actually, I am not a Bush supporter, and I am certainly not a radical conservative. I am a centrist that leans toward conserative authoritarianism because liberalism today is a joke. You, my friend, are a radical piece of communist scum. Go back to fucking Lenin and Marx, buddy....

Ren Janggar

46 7:56am 09/07/04

Registered Sex Offender<br><b>The TRF Staff Does Not Support Or Condone The Existence Of Ren Janggar</b>

You have a potty mouth.

milkshake

47 12:18pm 09/07/04

Jedi Masterwan ... ... Shaken, Not Stirred

And also it's somewhat disturbing that you considering yourself a Christian would condone war on other innocent human beings.

Thats exactly right, Zell. Thank you for saying it. No good Christian would kill thousands of innocent humans. Ever.

I absolutely hate it when people say that they are doing what is right by God, when they so obviously arent. They need to read the new testament a few times and look at the meaning. Jesus, who could have stayed allive through violence, who even could have had the whole world by turning his mobs against rome, died instead of using violence. WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU?

Actually, for your information Sam, I went to go see the movie the day it was released. I thought it was filled with lies, lefty propoganda, and just plain stupidity. What do you expect from Michael Moore though?

Cal, you should read a few books. "Blinded by the Right" for instance. Why do you belive everything your right-siders say? This qoute above me is just plain SAD. And so is everything else you said. I don't even want to talk about it.

Bananas

Samantha Koortyn

48 12:23pm 09/07/04

Dis aliter visum. <br>IQ Rating: 140

So Cal, since you have seen the film, can you be more specific in what exactly Moore lied about?

I'm eager to hear your opinions.

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Dolash02

49 1:48pm 09/07/04

Return of the King of the Cafe!

Yeah, I'm interested too. It seems a thousand and one people say the movie is trash and filled with lefty propaganda (propaganda promoting the evil beliefs of Liberalsim, like equality and peace! Shame) but they can never specify exactly what it is that he's making up, no matter how pressed they are. THey just say its' all lies and never give examples.

Now, Michael Moore could say "Bush and his friends are all liars" and just leave it at that and he'd be on par with the rest of the media and most people as to how they treat this movie, but he doesn't. HE provides reasons, evidence, logic, that sort of stuff. Something I have yet to see at all when trying to prove Moore wrong besides calling him a lying sack of crap.

General Grevious

50 2:13pm 09/07/04

El mas chingon!

Cal, your comments amuse me.

Amuse me some more.

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