The Rebel Faction

Give me a @#%$ break. The "Ooo, yer hostile!!!" card has long since been old.

I am simply curious as to why you jump to hostilities everytime anyone approaches you about anything.

No, it is in no way shape of form anyone's fault but your own that you failed to take into consideration that Abregado-rae no longer had a shield generator.

*sigh*

My fault ends at the fact that I did not seek out whether or not it was legitimate to remove such enormous and essential power structures from a planet when it has been essentially deemed impossible everywhere else. You will of course forgive me for presuming that even the mildest laws of reality do indeed occur here.

That is what we call a simple mistake, when someone is new, they make these series of mistakes.

If you had bothered to look at TNO's defences, you would have noticed that.

I read your takeover, thank you for enlightening me to the fact that it is okay by the rules to move these pieces of equipment, I shall henceforth look to see if it is done. Again, it is called a simple mistake.

Don't give me this "realism" crap.

This is where you're getting faulty.

Do you believe in realism or not?

It's not hard to find the appropriate threads that show our planetary defences.

Nor is it impossible to assume that because you captured an infrastructure that is generally permanent that is still there when I attack. Is it?

And yes, you're right. There is a huge difference between moving a single person and getting command of a fleet.

There is also a major difference between coincidences that happen in your favor in every post, and being placed in command of a warfleet by Griff.

It is much harder to get command of a fleet.

Not really, commander says "This is what occurs" and that is what occurs.

You are the one who seems to be so fond of "realism", so -- where is the roleplay where you recieved command of the fleet?

Again we're not dealing with something like a captured prisoner who just so happened to be moved right before the attack.

What you're doing is taking present occurences and trying to make up for past mistakes. You didn't move him in the past, at all. There is a major difference between fleet assignments, and moving strategic resources/personnel after the fact to make up for your mistakes and oversights.

Unfortunately for you, Joren Arden, since you did not respond, did not post, or make any such statement that he was anywhere in the entirety of this thread or other threads - that I am aware of - is still on Abregado-rae.

Or shall I simply assume that you're an illegitimate officer of the ORS Navy who illegally siezed those vessels?

Go ahead, you are entitled to the right to be wrong.

Kamon, if this thread involved you, I might actually give a @#%$. But as it is, you're dishing out the same bullshit that hasn't gotten you anywhere - ever.

"under the stated facts that the buildings are double reinforced"

So what you say automatically is more important than what I say, is it? I stated that the buildings were destroyed before you said anything.


Now then, Mr. MeVere.

Point me in the direction of the following roleplays:

1) The one in which you determined the location of Joren Arden (assuming he is still on the planet). He just happened to be right in the middle of the city, did he?

2) Again, the roleplay in which you took command of your fleet. That is, after all, a very important event. Otherwise, the fleet never left ORS space because the commander did not have the authority to give the orders.


Now then, tell me what gives you the right to tell me what my citizens are doing? Shall I reply in kind and RP your armies surrendering?

You claiming that "the civilians stopped fighting" does not make it so. Your firing into their homes simply makes them more eager to fight back.

One you provide the required RPs above, we will allow you to claim that Joren Arden is on Abregado-rae. You are not, however, allowed to claim that we "left him in a civilian prison".

1) The one in which you determined the location of Joren Arden (assuming he is still on the planet). He just happened to be right in the middle of the city, did he?

The very thread we are debating over, Games Begin [Abregado-rae]

2) Again, the roleplay in which you took command of your fleet. That is, after all, a very important event. Otherwise, the fleet never left ORS space because the commander did not have the authority to give the orders.

Who is taking what out of context now?

Now then, tell me what gives you the right to tell me what my citizens are doing?

Shall I dig up the old Abregado-rae thread where you told Joren Arden what his citizens were doing? Or what about Kamon's thread over Tholatin where you are telling him what his citizens are doing?

Shall I reply in kind and RP your armies surrendering?

Sure, when you outgun them, outposition them, outmanuever them, outnumber them, and are pounding them from every direction with heavy weaponary that is decimating their positions, I've no problems with that, it's plenty realistic.

Of course, technically due to your lack of stating a manifest, you have no troops on the ground at all, and therefore I could just mosey up and take the planet if I so chose.

You claiming that "the civilians stopped fighting" does not make it so. Your firing into their homes simply makes them more eager to fight back.

Alright first of all let's suppose I was firing into their homes, your logic is pretty flawed as so:

Throughout history there have been instances of persons attempting to repel hostile invaders to their home. During the American Revolution people picked up arms plenty of times, forming county militias and doing away with the invading force.

This was also seen with the British occupation of India. The people, in the end, fought back. Even in the invasion of the U.S.S.R. by Nazi Germany.

However let's not forget...millions of people attempted to surrender to Hitler's war machine, but due to his arrogance, he had them either shot or sent to prison camps, or left them to starve in the cities, he did not want inferiors serving in his armies. But his desires are beside the point. Hitler slaughtered people by the thousands and bombed wantonly their homes, and yet they were still throwing themselves at him.

In the American Revolution only a portion of the civilians were actually willing to fight. In all actuality, most of the high class citizens attempted to politically assist the British, to the point that some even tried to fight for them. And the British wantonly destroyed people's homes.

Now let's take it a step further.

Let's look at Israel. The Palestinians ferociously assault Israeli people, their homes, and the places they work. They do not fight back.

Civilians generally do not get involved in war. They don't have the courage or training to do what is necessary to win one. Throughout history it has occured when people band together to form militias, but never have they stood against a well-trained army in open combat.

Before you reference the Battle of Cowpens where Colonial forces used militia on the front, remember full well what the militia's job was: fire two shots, run, and let the infantry/regulars do their jobs.

Upon a superior force, every single type of militia throughout history has always crumbled or surrendered.

Now amidst this chaos, having your military being destroyed out from under you, and the promise that they will leave the system upon your defeat, what seriously makes you think that people who are just caught in the middle with no military training are going to fight and die for you when you won't even do so yourself?

After removing their ONLY defensive installation (the shield generator) and leaving them to fend for themselves. You burned more bridges than anyone else here has.

Compared to the Empire, ORS's rule was that of prosperity and glory.

One you provide the required RPs above, we will allow you to claim that Joren Arden is on Abregado-rae.

I don't see your name on the staff.

You are not, however, allowed to claim that we "left him in a civilian prison".

You did not refute it ICly, you have nothing IC to counter my claim, and you have no claim whatsoever toward Joren Arden's character. Again, he was not informed of any move, he did not get a chance to respond, and you made no move.

Fate cannot always tip in your balance.

--If you will continue this circular debate, I am afraid I shan't continue it. If you want the staff to get involved, please ask them to do so. However I will not continue to simply pass the same words back and forth. That is my position above.--

You'll lost your window of availability, but if you leave your screen name I will make another one in a few days.

Total Forces
2 ASD, 2 ISD, 12 SC, 2 SCC, 3 BHC, 4 PAC, 10 CG, 60 SBOP
(95 Total)


New Ones Have complete fighter manifests and troop manifests

There is some confusion as to the exact amount of soldiers that my ships can carry, I will have for you an exact count perhaps by tomorrow.

However, if you read, I did indeed state my manifest.

And no, the "current roleplay" does not count. You walzed into the city and said "Hey, look! There's Joren Arden!"

Wrong. I went to his last known location, I assaulted the planet, I talked to the evacuated refugees, Prisoners of War and the like. I attained data, I attacked likely targets, and voila there he is.

You assumed that he was left in a civilian prison.

You made no other claims, I had to fill in the gap. If you look at the RP though, it is not in fact a civilian prison I just broke him out of.

That was refuted IC with the bit about the guy whom you're looking at, who in fact is not Joren but someone who looks like him.

Funny, according to the man who plays Joren Arden, it is Joren Arden.

The citizens of Abregado-rae were incited to rebel by Imperial Agents. The GC did not bother to respond for 17 days. Simply getting the citizens to rebel took some weeks (note that the RP starts after the agents have been there some time - they've succeeded in rousing a demonstration).
Seven or eight IC days passed in which I manipulated the citizens.

You walked in and told them what they were doing.

I walked in, assaulted the planet, began decimating your garrison and defenses, and then approached the refugees who were allowed to leave, stating that as long as they did not fight, they would not be harmed.

See the difference is, I'm not inciting them into a rebellion, I'm simply ensuring they do the natural civilian thing to do: not get involved.

And the situation on Tholatin is not the same in the least.

No but it is. You are telling Kamon what his citizens do, what happens on his planet, what he can decide for his buildings and the like.

I am doing nothing of the sort. I am saying civilians don't want to die. Show me the erroneus assumption in that.

I even conceded to your arguement that you removed the shield generator and the like due to my mistake. I have been rather fair here, if you pointed out a mistake or a problem that was fair and valid, I corrected it.

But I'm not going to, again, let you dictate my actions because you see a sparkle of opportunity in your eye.

Now, if you wish to stand by your arguments above, you may as well leave today because they're a combination of flawed logic and BS.

I'm glad you think that.