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The Rebel Faction » Forums » Role Playing » OOC Discussion » Opening Doors to the Future
Dies Irae
Where do you think the fleet was heading? It is carrying the God of their people with them, so Ill let you have one guess...
TNO's Finest
McDonald's?
I am not going to presume where BDE and their God decide to go. I know there are high probabilities for some areas and low probabilities for others.
I was not so much trying to decypher where your fleet was going so much as to just throw the observation out there that the time in transit within the wormhole would be directly related to how far or close the destination was.
I am not going to presume where BDE and their God decide to go. I know there are high probabilities for some areas and low probabilities for others.
I was not so much trying to decypher where your fleet was going so much as to just throw the observation out there that the time in transit within the wormhole would be directly related to how far or close the destination was.
Blink If You Can Hear Me
In any event, the trip could conceivably last for several hours if not a day or two depending on just how far the BDE wormhole is taking their fleet and depending if the Victory remains in the wormhole the entire time.
It's a one-way trip. Unless you have an Arbiter stowed aboard that ISD, you exit where they do, or get used to the purdy swirling colors.
OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.
I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis
TNO's Finest
Well, that's what I was not sure about. The R&D didn't really say one way or the other. I mean, just how powerful is the 7m craft?... and if I remember correctly, that the Arbiter does not actually create the wormhole, only the artificial opening into an existing wormhole. At least that was the impression I when it was mentioned before.
The premise being that you postulate the entire galaxy is connected by a network of wormholes that are undetectible by conventional/canon ships and that your Arbiter cuts into and utilizes.
You're last statement supports this idea since you indicate if the Victory does not take advantage of the BDE exit wormhole, they will be stuck in this wormhole network. So then the wormholes are not point to point but, rather, the arbiter "cuts" (for lack of a better word) into the network and takes advantage of the "free ride" offered.
However, this also might contradict the R&D for it states the Arbiter "moves" the wormhole to increase craft up to 15x the speed of light.
But might this speed increase be simply a natural phenomena that occures within the wormhole network?
(This network would be different from the point to point wormholes generated by BDE ships)
Therefore, conceivably, if the Cree Ar attack lasted for weeks or months (keeping Aribiters active) the Victory could come back around the network and exit there...
It'd be a stretch in the rp and one I wouldn't make.. but in theory it would be possible.
Or, if the wormholes are existing phenomena that the arbiter utilizes rather than creates, then perhaps where one area the wormhole wall barriers is strong and another area could be weaker... or the wormhole is undergoing some destabilization problems somewhere...(assuming the wormholes are ancient).
I find this is pretty interesting thing to think about.
Anyway, do I have the right idea Ahnk?
The premise being that you postulate the entire galaxy is connected by a network of wormholes that are undetectible by conventional/canon ships and that your Arbiter cuts into and utilizes.
You're last statement supports this idea since you indicate if the Victory does not take advantage of the BDE exit wormhole, they will be stuck in this wormhole network. So then the wormholes are not point to point but, rather, the arbiter "cuts" (for lack of a better word) into the network and takes advantage of the "free ride" offered.
However, this also might contradict the R&D for it states the Arbiter "moves" the wormhole to increase craft up to 15x the speed of light.
But might this speed increase be simply a natural phenomena that occures within the wormhole network?
(This network would be different from the point to point wormholes generated by BDE ships)
Therefore, conceivably, if the Cree Ar attack lasted for weeks or months (keeping Aribiters active) the Victory could come back around the network and exit there...
It'd be a stretch in the rp and one I wouldn't make.. but in theory it would be possible.
Or, if the wormholes are existing phenomena that the arbiter utilizes rather than creates, then perhaps where one area the wormhole wall barriers is strong and another area could be weaker... or the wormhole is undergoing some destabilization problems somewhere...(assuming the wormholes are ancient).
I find this is pretty interesting thing to think about.
Anyway, do I have the right idea Ahnk?
Dies Irae
No, in one statement
Last time you asked, we said no. The Arbiter creates its own, although it is a very interesting and thought provoking idea, there is no vast galactic network of undiscovered wormholes.
You might like the game Starfire, Simon. Unrelated, but it was a game where a dark wormhole was found near Jupiter, and from there a small series of wormhole networks across the galaxy...
only the artificial opening into an existing wormhole
Last time you asked, we said no. The Arbiter creates its own, although it is a very interesting and thought provoking idea, there is no vast galactic network of undiscovered wormholes.
You might like the game Starfire, Simon. Unrelated, but it was a game where a dark wormhole was found near Jupiter, and from there a small series of wormhole networks across the galaxy...
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Blink If You Can Hear Me
I said it creates a natural wormhole. It doesn't open an entrance so much as it creates a natural wormhole. People said the Cree'Ar creates it, not so much. It's like fission. You break the one atom and then let nature do the rest.
That was when I was asked if the wormhole stayed open or collapsed when the Arbiter was destroyed. No, it has a natural life cycle and will die over a set time. It is not an infinitely sustainable orifice.
To tunnel out, you need to bend the edge of the wormhole and inject through that bend dark matter, tearing a hole in space the same way you tore the hole that opened the conduit. Otherwise, you'll just float around in there as it gradually seals in on itself under the temporal pressure and without energy used to sustain it.
So saying that the Cree'Ar doesn't create the wormhole is both true and false. It's the catalyst for it's creation but the phenoma occurs naturally, it's just being invoked artifically.
That was when I was asked if the wormhole stayed open or collapsed when the Arbiter was destroyed. No, it has a natural life cycle and will die over a set time. It is not an infinitely sustainable orifice.
To tunnel out, you need to bend the edge of the wormhole and inject through that bend dark matter, tearing a hole in space the same way you tore the hole that opened the conduit. Otherwise, you'll just float around in there as it gradually seals in on itself under the temporal pressure and without energy used to sustain it.
So saying that the Cree'Ar doesn't create the wormhole is both true and false. It's the catalyst for it's creation but the phenoma occurs naturally, it's just being invoked artifically.
OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.
I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis
TNO's Finest
I've got it now. I didn't see his last post to my question. My bad.
Then once the orifice is opened, no one has the power to actually close it. It will die on it's own.
So then, there are two very important questions to consider:
1. When the wormhole dissolves/closes naturally what is the effect to ships remaining (trapped) inside?
2. How long the wormhole can remain open naturally?
Logic suggests that the wormhole can remain open for at least long enough for Cree Ar to travel from one end of the galaxy to the other and that this process is constant. It would have to be otherwise you get into how much dark matter can a 7m ship carry and how much would that amount really affect. If you want to get into that area, fine... but personally, it's easier to say that the process is constant no matter if you are "wormholing" your way from Tralus to Talus or running the diameter of the galaxy.
Or
You purposefully trap your ships in a "pocket" and hope the arbiter opens the exit at the exact moment necessary to bring your ships to their desired destination.
Either way there are consequences to consider.
Or
Is the dark matter released enough to open an entrance and an exit after the wormhole naturally forms?
I don't really care either way, but it would be nice to know.
I ask these questions because I am trying to fit it in with what has been written or not written already.
Your fleet that is listening but not visible. They are in a wormhole then and need an arbiter to form an exit.
Motion: This means your fleet can remain at rest in a wormhole and that the wormholes are nothing more than a naturally occuring corridor.
Senors/Comms: It also means that some sort of rudimentary sensors and communications can take part within the confines of the wormhole and probably (if you are monitoring [I haven't checked this.. but you'd almost have to be]) signals can come and go through the wormhole.
Granted only your comms are working because you have the gravity manipulation thingies on which would automatically cut any intercepting of our signals since you are playing havoc with our broadcasts.
I was thinking the motion was perpetual within the wormhole and that it naturally moved stuff faster than light (15x faster).
But if that was the case, then you wouldn't be able to "monitor" our situation .. you'd be coming in super fast and the arbiter would need to make an opening exactly at the right space and time or you'd overshoot and be 4 500 000 kilometers away in a second.
So then you can be at rest. Which also means for every "group" of ships you have 1 arbiter. (for reinforcement in my mind even though you are probably saying "duh").
Which brings us to BDE's ships.
Grev does not have to indicate the wormhole is closing as it will do that naturally. But he did not mention moving the arbiter with the fleet either as he described two separate groups: arbiter and BDE armada (one affecting the other).
If the arbiter is not with the fleet (not mentioned), and if the wormhole does not naturally bring the BDE armada to 15x speed of light (assumption based on Cree Ar [at rest positioning], and BDE armada has not activated their own method of hypertravel (not mentioned), then they are still situated very close to the opening, the natural wormhole formation is before them but they are at rest... unless inertia or their gravitic engines are moving them at sublight speeds which would be possible until the Arbiter actually joined the fleet and began moving them up to 15x speed of light by "moving" wormhole.
This "moving" of the wormhole: does it stretch the wormhole or does it sever it from the opening that will die naturally.
I am thinking, if it severs the wormhole then the actual templar compression is happening right on the heels of the fleet in motion. So then it becomes a question as to how fast the compession occurrs as opposed to the speed the fleet and if Arbiter is damaged or whatnot (easy if 7m and carrying volatile matter) then the compression would overtake the fleet.
It may not be a wormhole network but this sort of figuring is interesting too..
Then once the orifice is opened, no one has the power to actually close it. It will die on it's own.
So then, there are two very important questions to consider:
1. When the wormhole dissolves/closes naturally what is the effect to ships remaining (trapped) inside?
2. How long the wormhole can remain open naturally?
Logic suggests that the wormhole can remain open for at least long enough for Cree Ar to travel from one end of the galaxy to the other and that this process is constant. It would have to be otherwise you get into how much dark matter can a 7m ship carry and how much would that amount really affect. If you want to get into that area, fine... but personally, it's easier to say that the process is constant no matter if you are "wormholing" your way from Tralus to Talus or running the diameter of the galaxy.
Or
You purposefully trap your ships in a "pocket" and hope the arbiter opens the exit at the exact moment necessary to bring your ships to their desired destination.
Either way there are consequences to consider.
The wormhole is creates is not artifically sustained. It has a natural cycle. The Abirter opens an entrance and an exit to the conduitSo the wormhole is opened at one end but if the arbiter does not go with the fleet there is nothing to open the other end and so the fleet is trapped?
Or
Is the dark matter released enough to open an entrance and an exit after the wormhole naturally forms?
I don't really care either way, but it would be nice to know.
If it were destroyed while creating a wormhole then it would damage any ships trying to enter it. If destroyed in a wormhole, it would not be innundated, it would expand as the dark matter forced it further open. Like penetration, it's tight when you slide in, but once you add juice, it's easy sailing.forced "what" further open? wormhole? entrance? exit? Exploding Dark Matter forces an opening then?
I ask these questions because I am trying to fit it in with what has been written or not written already.
Your fleet that is listening but not visible. They are in a wormhole then and need an arbiter to form an exit.
Motion: This means your fleet can remain at rest in a wormhole and that the wormholes are nothing more than a naturally occuring corridor.
Senors/Comms: It also means that some sort of rudimentary sensors and communications can take part within the confines of the wormhole and probably (if you are monitoring [I haven't checked this.. but you'd almost have to be]) signals can come and go through the wormhole.
Granted only your comms are working because you have the gravity manipulation thingies on which would automatically cut any intercepting of our signals since you are playing havoc with our broadcasts.
I was thinking the motion was perpetual within the wormhole and that it naturally moved stuff faster than light (15x faster).
But if that was the case, then you wouldn't be able to "monitor" our situation .. you'd be coming in super fast and the arbiter would need to make an opening exactly at the right space and time or you'd overshoot and be 4 500 000 kilometers away in a second.
So then you can be at rest. Which also means for every "group" of ships you have 1 arbiter. (for reinforcement in my mind even though you are probably saying "duh").
Which brings us to BDE's ships.
Grev does not have to indicate the wormhole is closing as it will do that naturally. But he did not mention moving the arbiter with the fleet either as he described two separate groups: arbiter and BDE armada (one affecting the other).
If the arbiter is not with the fleet (not mentioned), and if the wormhole does not naturally bring the BDE armada to 15x speed of light (assumption based on Cree Ar [at rest positioning], and BDE armada has not activated their own method of hypertravel (not mentioned), then they are still situated very close to the opening, the natural wormhole formation is before them but they are at rest... unless inertia or their gravitic engines are moving them at sublight speeds which would be possible until the Arbiter actually joined the fleet and began moving them up to 15x speed of light by "moving" wormhole.
This "moving" of the wormhole: does it stretch the wormhole or does it sever it from the opening that will die naturally.
I am thinking, if it severs the wormhole then the actual templar compression is happening right on the heels of the fleet in motion. So then it becomes a question as to how fast the compession occurrs as opposed to the speed the fleet and if Arbiter is damaged or whatnot (easy if 7m and carrying volatile matter) then the compression would overtake the fleet.
It may not be a wormhole network but this sort of figuring is interesting too..
Blink If You Can Hear Me
I've got it now. I didn't see his last post to my question. My bad.
*Sigh*
More questions. Eyeish!
Then once the orifice is opened, no one has the power to actually close it. It will die on it's own.
Oh, you could close it artifically I SUPPOSE, though conventional weapons would serve rather to jam it open.
The wormhole iden/egress closes in a matter of minutes. It can be held open longer, and often is. Vessels enter it at sublight speed and that can take anywhere from a minute to an hour. Keeping the entrance open that long takes dark matter and energy from the Arbiter, but it can be done.
This is one of the reasons I thought your entering BDE's wormhole might have been questionable. As soon as the last ship of his is through, the wormhole would immediatly begin to decay. You'd really have to haul ass to get an SD into it.
1. When the wormhole dissolves/closes naturally what is the effect to ships remaining (trapped) inside?
Destruction. The womrhole is like... like a suchre. It's a conduit through a constantly contracting body. Eventually, the suchre and all materials in it disolve and melt away.
2. How long the wormhole can remain open naturally?
Months, maybe. Years. Never really considered it but it would die off. For the sake of arguement, months. Shorter the longer the conduit.
Logic suggests that the wormhole can remain open for at least long enough for Cree Ar to travel from one end of the galaxy to the other and that this process is constant.
MUCH more then that, as the Arbiter is how the Cree'Ar travel not within galaxies but also between them. But that isn't natural, as the Arbiter uses booster shots to keep the conduit from collapsing. With Arbiter support, you're talking centuries, since it took 150+ years to get to this galaxy.
You purposefully trap your ships in a "pocket" and hope the arbiter opens the exit at the exact moment necessary to bring your ships to their desired destination.
Cree'Ar vessels are able to calculate pretty precisely where they are. There isn't a lot of blind luck involved.
Either way there are consequences to consider.
Where were you 3 years ago?
So the wormhole is opened at one end but if the arbiter does not go with the fleet there is nothing to open the other end and so the fleet is trapped?
Or
Is the dark matter released enough to open an entrance and an exit after the wormhole naturally forms?
I don't really care either way, but it would be nice to know.
The first one, but I've said that before.
forced "what" further open? wormhole? entrance? exit? Exploding Dark Matter forces an opening then?
Space.
The Arbiter folds a bend in space. When that bend is injected with Dark Matter, it tears a hole in the barrier between space, and what exists beyond. What exists beyond does not support matter, and is apt to crush it, but the explosion sucks a great deal of space into it, in a vaccum of sorts. The dark matter isn't so much exploding as it provoking the explosion... the barrier is designed to resist matter, but negative matter causes it become inert, and allow the explosion to take place.
Your fleet that is listening but not visible. They are in a wormhole then and need an arbiter to form an exit.
No. They are in a nebula outside of the system.
Motion: This means your fleet can remain at rest in a wormhole and that the wormholes are nothing more than a naturally occuring corridor.
Again, no... the ships can remain at rest, and the wormhole can remain at rest, but they are not natural as explained before.
Sensors/Comms: It also means that some sort of rudimentary sensors and communications can take part within the confines of the wormhole and probably (if you are monitoring [I haven't checked this.. but you'd almost have to be]) signals can come and go through the wormhole.
Granted only your comms are working because you have the gravity manipulation thingies on which would automatically cut any intercepting of our signals since you are playing havoc with our broadcasts.
Both sensors and comms do not work properly. There is an echoing effect because the ships aren't held to the normal laws of matter and neither is the signals they emit. The Nexus network has compensated for that over the millenia that the Cree'Ar have used conduits to travel.
And no, you are confusing my technology again. I explained my method od jamming to Isstal over AIM and if you insist, I will do so here. But you asked me to edit my post because it was confusing, and I editted it and you STILL seem to be confused. ~_~ My gravitic manipulation arrays are creating the interdiction field. The jamming signal and all communication is routed through my cybernetic nexus network, and the nexus units on board all of my ships.
I was thinking the motion was perpetual within the wormhole and that it naturally moved stuff faster than light (15x faster).
The wormhole is pushed from inside by pinching off the one end. The forces that are trying to expel the matter then push the conduit, but if you're making a microjump... say, from Earth to the Moon... the conduit would not move.
But if that was the case, then you wouldn't be able to "monitor" our situation .. you'd be coming in super fast and the arbiter would need to make an opening exactly at the right space and time or you'd overshoot and be 4 500 000 kilometers away in a second.
So then you can be at rest.
One, no, I'm not in a wormhole, and two, I come out at sublight speed. The vessels themselves can stay inert... it's the space around them that moves.
Which also means for every "group" of ships you have 1 arbiter. (for reinforcement in my mind even though you are probably saying "duh").
I only need the one.
Which brings us to BDE's ships.
And this is where I tune out, but, BDE knows how to work the Arbiter, they have a year OOC time to figure out it's workings, have reverse engineered it, and I assume aren't stupid and now how to work it.
The conduit goes nowhere as long as it has an entrance/exit open.
OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.
I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis
Dies Irae
btw, unless Ahnk made a mistake, the wormhole would traverse distances far faster than 15x the speed of light. Hyperspace travel is faster than that.
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Blink If You Can Hear Me
I'm not throwing around numbers. I've always stated that it's exponentially faster then hyperspace because of it's nature, but if you want to say 15x the speed of light, then that's your call. Just don't be suprised when we're moving much faster then that.
OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.
I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis