The Rebel Faction

Did you even read his post? Or has your bullshitting extended to the point where you think it doesn't matter anymore?

Demosthenes X:

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and you still claim to be as strong as the Empire.

Dolash:

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so let me say this: the Empire is stronger than the Coalition.

Dolash:

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I don't contest this.

Dolash:

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The Empire has been around longer, has been more secure, is in the same league as the Coalition in terms of territory but still has substantially more, and has a lot more of the powerful, stable centers of industry, commerce, and population under their belt.

Dolash:

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However, we're still simply not as big or developed yet as the Empire in terms of what actually exists in the setting.

Dolash:

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Our warmachine is strong but it doesn't measure up to the Empire's in terms of scale.

Dolash:

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I guess what I'm trying to say is that we in the Coalition can't honestly claim to be as powerful as the Empire if we're doing some sort of bean-counting, ship-measuring, whose is bigger thing

Demos, first make sure someone is disagreeing with you before you shit all over them.

And you're acting like you've added anything constructive since you started this thread.

I like how you completely ignored how I nullified your Dolash trashing, by the way. Nice.

No, Demos. I have not seen anything constructive from you. What I've seen from you is cleverly disguised personal attacks on just about every person in this thread. Its a good tactic, because if you can convince people that the people you're arguing with are jackasses/idiots then they don't have to pay attention to the points they bring up against you.

The only Imperials I've seen provide constructive debate so far have been Wes Vos and Telan Desaria. Every other Imperial, besides yourself, has left this thread alone. And on several points you've dissented and even flat out disagreed with both Wes and Telan.

But hey, thats okay right? Because when this thread is over and you've trashed everyone else's credibility nobody will care about the actual argument anymore, right? Wrong. Because everyone else here doesn't think that Corisce or Marth or Dolash or OS or even Wes and Telan are the assholes in this situation. They think you are. And any semblance of an actual argument you've displayed against their claims has been utterly clouded by your rampant display of asshattery.

So no, I won't stop posting in this thread until you shut the fuck up with the personal attacks and the holier than thou my word is law attitude or I am specifically ordered to cease and desist by a staff member.

I'm very glad to see that people are still attempting to persevere and get something thats worth anything out of this thread, something I had believed to be a lost cause. I am sorry for those people here that I respect that Demos is attempting to ruin that.

So how is that for assaults on your "personal integrity" (or gross lack thereof), Demos?

The point I was trying to make is exactly that - I am not debating that the GC can match Imperial Fleets and on some occassions *shudder* surpass them, I am saying they cannot match as many as we can put into the field. It is not quality I debate, for Dolash in particular I have high regard for IC and OOC/IRL and I do consider him a friend, but quantity.

Iosef Dsagleivich Stalin - " Quantity has a quality all its own"

The Empire and the Coalition vary greatly in terms of governmental structure and rightly so - we are bad evil and bent on conquest while they are democratic good and all about peace. The Empire represents the best and occassionally worst of a government devoted to total war. The Empire provides in peace what it needs in war and has the ability to devote itself fully and wholly to any cause placed before them. Its people, Imperial people, do not need to tolerate or approve of any such measures, but they do obey. Or else. There are measures in place such as the mobilization of adolescent reserves and ROTC/training programmes that would never be tolerated in a democratic society.

Also, the Empire, while lavish extragant and down right opulent, has a great deal of money which to devote to projects the Coalition could not because so much of its funds are tied up in the mire of democracy: councils, delagates, staffs, etc, on so many levels of government.

However, this makes for excellent rping - exactly as it should.

Ship for ship - on some scales - the Coalition is equal to if not greater than the Empire. On other levels (battleships) far below. That said, there are engagements where the Empire can be seriously trounced. But even if the Coalition could defeat six Imperial attacks with the six fleets it has available, the Empire would have three more that would have no counters whatsoever.

The point I think Demos was trying to make was attrition. But that mkes things fun.

And that, ladies, gentlemen, peers, subhumans, and detestable force-using scum, is why we are here.

Well said, Telan. Well said indeed.

One of my major points, though, and one you've missed, I think, is that the Coalition has seemingly ignored the devestating effects of the very recent BDE war.

I take Joren's post again as an example, because it shows a GC fleet mobilization post-BDE. Joren describes his soldiers has all being the best, despite the fact that the BDE war must have claimed the lives of many GC soldiers.

It also seems to show fleets in seemingly pristine condition, even though the "first six" that Telan uses in his example must have been damaged in the BDE conflict, leaving remnants to fill the gaps. Obviously the other writer's intention is not always known, and this may be a case of that. It is simply the impression that I get.

*shrug*

I would not argue that the GC is not a strong group in and of itself, but I will argue that they're portryal of a government emerging from a war is not entirely realistic.

As interesting as this debate is, I think it has long since lost its purpose. Corise, Dolash, Joren: as some of the leaders and generally most reasonable people in the GC, I would love to continue this discussion in private. I feel like there could be a number of interesting storylines bred out of the state the GC finds itself in... Julius' thread is just one such example.

That is, of course, at your discretion. If you feel there is anything unresolved, I'd be happy to discuss it with you over PM, AIM, or through one of TNO's hidden forums.

In the meantime, I leave the fate of this thread up to the staff. I do not feel the issues have been entirely resolved, and it does seem to me that they will come up again, especially as the Bilbringi and Counterstrike threads develop (as the state of the GC will have a direct impact on how those threads proceed, I believe).

Perhaps a better solution can be found - this thread seems to have runs its useful course.

Thanks to everyone who contributed - even if it does not come down to affecting the IC galaxy of TRF, this thread has provided for fascinating reading (in my humble opinion), and a good oppertunity for debate. Some very good points were brought up, and I do not think it would be a far cry to say we all learned a little something, be it about the GC, the Empire, real life, or ourselves (;)).

Once I'm done my time machine I'm going to visit the Math faction, when it was still fun.