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The Rebel Faction » Forums » General Discussion » Rebel Cafe » "The enemy has a face.

>>>1234

1  2:43am 09/11/04        
fuck that duck
He's called Satan. He lives in Falluja. And we're going to destroy him."

-Lt Col Gareth Brandl, United States Marines

For those of you that don't want to be force-fed news, tough. This is easily the biggest thing to happen in Iraq since the invasion began last year. And it will undoubtaly prove a critical moment for the future of Iraq.

American and Iraqi forces have begun their assault on the insurgent-held city of Fallujah, in Iraq, where an estimated 2000 militants are said to be taking cover.

Read the BBC's take on it [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3989639.stm"]HERE[/url].

And pray that this doesn't become a massacre.

With the election a week old and convincing reports of voter fraud and disenfranchisement beginning to surface (beginning?), the best thing for the Bush administration is a renewed conflict.

What strategic advantadge does holding off the assault until now offer?

None. But the political advantadge is huge - the mass casualties the USA will suffer should insurgents fight will not have a baring on the election. And the fight will distract every major news service in the United States from the rising evidence of a stolen election.

God help us all.
[size=1]"So the woman asked me what I wanted on the sandwich and I said I do not care it is for a duck, and she was like oh then it's free. I was not aware that ducks eat for free at Subway. It's like give me a chicken fajita sub, but don't worry about ringing it up, it is for a duck.”
-Mitch Hedberg
[/size]
2  2:55am 09/11/04        
But They're So Cryptic Who Would Know
You might want to adjust your tinfoil hat there.
3  4:47am 09/11/04        
we'll fight in the shade
The assault is neccessary, Drayson. Insurgents control the city, Iraqi elections are in two months, and there is no chan of free elections with a key city held by rebels.


There will be casualties, I promise you that. Another thing I promise you is that there is no way to negotiate with Islamic militants. They will not leave the city unless they are driven out.

Do you have a better idea?
[22:14] RogueLightSider: Omnae should let you know when he knocks you up methinks.
[22:14] LeiaOrganaSolo39: haha he must be really teeny, I didnt feel a thing!
4  4:56am 09/11/04        
Blink If You Can Hear Me
Joren Logan:
Another thing I promise you is that there is no way to negotiate with Islamic militants.

o rlly

Is that why they negotiated them into a cease fire, and then surrounded the city while waiting for the election?
OS: In a world of bon-bons, you are a twinkie.
Ahnk: God damn you, I am Count Chocula and you know it.
I'm not spending my anniversary night thumping my head against the wall. - Damalis, on Moderating TRF
Then tell him you want it harder, damnit! - Ahnk, on Damalis
5  5:15am 09/11/04        
fuck that duck
"Elections" imply a certain ammount of choice. Since it's quite apparent that any Iraqi government is going to be reliant on the US Military to keep them from not being overthrown, it really makes no difference whether or not there are elections, or who wins.

They'll have to do what America says anyway.

And you clearly did not read the article, nor have knowledge of basic gurrella tactics. It's quite common for insurgent forces like these to simply "melt away" when faced with an overwhelming conventional force.

If they stay and fight, the insurgents will not win - obviously. They might inflict casualties, but that won't drive the USA out of Iraq. I predict a number will stay, but the majority will live to fight another day, in any number of other cities in Iraq.

At the very least, the siege of Fallujah kept most of the insurgents pinned down. The invasion may very well scatter them. Plus, the civilian deaths might just inspire more people to take up arms against the invaders.

I see the situation as lose-lose.
[size=1]"So the woman asked me what I wanted on the sandwich and I said I do not care it is for a duck, and she was like oh then it's free. I was not aware that ducks eat for free at Subway. It's like give me a chicken fajita sub, but don't worry about ringing it up, it is for a duck.”
-Mitch Hedberg
[/size]
6  8:54pm 09/11/04        
we'll fight in the shade
Demosthenes X:
Plus, the civilian deaths might just inspire more people to take up arms against the invaders.
I see the situation as lose-lose.


You mean the civilians that have been evacuated from Fallujah for days now?

Those ones?
[22:14] RogueLightSider: Omnae should let you know when he knocks you up methinks.
[22:14] LeiaOrganaSolo39: haha he must be really teeny, I didnt feel a thing!
7  8:58pm 09/11/04        
Avatar
Jedi Masterwan ... ... Shaken, Not Stirred
JOren Logan and Demosthenes X bolth have less posts then me.
Bananas
8  9:06pm 09/11/04        
Return of the King of the Cafe!
If I may inject my opinion.

It is indeed suscpiscious as to why they awaited until very shortly after the election to launch the attack. But I imagine there was little ill-effect, since the time could be given over to bringing in more troops and increasing training. Wether it was political or not is not too important, as the soldiers should suffer little - if any - for the delay.

Also, there are still tens of thousands of civilians in Fallujah, we can safely imagine that many would not want, would be incapable of, or would not be allowed out of the city. There are far more civilians then there are enemies, and since all a militant need do is drop his gun and round a corner and he's an upstanding citizen again, civilian casualties will probably occur.

The real problem is not these things, however, although it is connected. I see the problem as the fact that people are BECOMING militants in the first place, and when you think about it a large amount are probably not doing it because they're religious fanatics or ex-Baathists, many would probably become fighters because of civilian casualties including their relatives or friends, or because they feel this is an occupation.

Now, obviously if stability is to return to Iraq, in any way and under any banner, Fallujah would have to be stabalized quickly. Maybe there is a diplomatic way to coax them out and ensure peace, but it appears they have failed or have not tried, and as such military attacks would be the only option. The question remains as to whether the attack will be very precise and carefully done, ensuring minimal losses all around and establishing peace in the city, or if it will be bungled and will serve in only boosting the cause of militant groups.
9  9:35pm 09/11/04        
Internaut
Are you really only fourteen?
10  10:14pm 09/11/04        
Avatar
Registered Sex Offender<br><b>The TRF Staff Does Not Support Or Condone The Existence Of Ren Janggar</b>
Dolash makes me feel stupid



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