The Rebel Faction

1/4 of the American population is supposedly without religious belief whatever that's worth.

We should never have been considered a religious country in the first place. Religious fanaticism is rampant in present-day America, and the Founding Fathers would have been horrified, as they were secularists who believed in keeping religion out of politics. It is conventional to assume that the Founding Fathers were deists. No doubt many of them were, but it has been argued on the basis of personal letters, memoirs, etc. that the greatest of them may have been atheists, or at least agnostics. I'd have to dig for examples of this but if requested I will.

I can, at least, offer this much. From the treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 under George Washington and signed by John Adams in 1797:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Think of the uproar the opening words of this quotation would cause in say, a presidential debate today. These are the views of the founding fathers, and yet the idea that our country is a Christian Nation is so prevalent. Why? The American people have been duped by religion as people have throughout the history of mankind.

And give me a freakin break, Park. Tolerance is something our country is greatly lacking in. Even if one were to argue that we have become more tolerant of religious views, what of those completely lacking in them? Who could argue that a candidate for the presidency would immediately be shunned the moment he spoke of his disbelief in a God. I can tell you first hand the intolerance experienced by an atheist, even a reserved one at that.

Personally, I think it's stupid to apply a religious affiliation with any political body. Applying such labels to political entities, in my opinion, simply destroys the credibility of said religion because there is no way a political entity can espouse the virtues of that religion.


In the case of Beff's question, I suppose one must ask:


What is America and what is Christianity?


Does being founded by a bunch of guys who believed themselves to be Christian automatically make America "Christian" by default? Does having a President who believes themselves to be Christian automatically make America "Christian" by default?

If so, then if America has a President of another religion, then the 'religious' identity of the country would then change.


Most religions are typically mutually exclusive which, of course, conflicts with the principals on which America was founded, at least, as I understand them (all men created equal, land of opportunity, haven for the free, religious tolerance...etc..etc..).


I believe that religion is a person's personal choice and if they make such a choice and claim fealty to a certain god or set of principles that is all well and good. What I see, however, is instead of people using their personal choice as an opportunity to mold their own lives according their principles of preference, they mistaken their "personal choice" as a charge to force others to make the same choice they did (as if these 'unbelievers' will give their own choice some validity).

Even more, though, I believe that if a person chooses to run for public office (in USA), they are no longer claiming fealty to a certain god or set of principals but to the people they want to lead/represent. If you want to work towards a position of leadership in a society that defends people's right to choose their own paths, that means defending those opportunities you would not choose for yourself for those who have the right to make those choices.

If your conscience will not allow you to do that, then you have no business running for public office.


Does that happen? No.


The leaders who consider themselves Christian not only want the cake they want to eat it as well. Not at all Christian in nature but then again, those christians who fled religious persecution were fleeing other christians and ended up persecuting the native americans and burning wiccans at the stake.

Go figure.

Sadly; the people elected the man and they are getting what many of us warned others about.

I don't agree with Religion being in politic's, its a powder keg and the fuse actually has already been lit - we just don't know when it'll explode.

Samantha Koortyn:

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Christians may "know this" but it is not and was NEVER true.

Actually, Sam, I have to disagree with you here. While not all of the founders were Christians, many of them were. They instilled Judeo-Christian principles into the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The circumstances surrounding the creation of the latter document strongly indicate a commitment to Christian principles.

Now, whether we are a Christian nation today is debatable.